All I have been hearing for the past two years is how Jack Johnson was the reason we couldn't win. Are you saying the reason for the Pens losing is actually deeper than Johnson. Or are you saying lacking a solid third line is a bigger reason than the narrative we have been believing.

I am not just saying here on this board but just about every media outlet here has ripped JJ without even considering or identifying another possible problem/solution.
- Thunderbolt

JJ was on the ice for like 70% of the goals against in the series against MTL. Probably responsive for like 50%. He was definitely the main problem against MTL. 2nd would be goaltending and 3rd roster construction. Of course there are multiple problems but icing the worst player in the NHL has its repercussions. Now we have the 2nd worst player in the NHL in Ceci, so we’ll see how that goes.

JJ was on the ice for like 70% of the goals against in the series against MTL. Probably responsive for like 50%. He was definitely the main problem against MTL. 2nd would be goaltending and 3rd roster construction. Of course there are multiple problems but icing the worst player in the NHL has its repercussions. Now we have the 2nd worst player in the NHL in Ceci, so we’ll see how that goes.
- j.boyd919

Dude, give him a chance! He hasn't even played one game as a Penguin! He only played top-four minutes before. Geez! Oh wait... I'm not Barnaby.

I'm far more optimistic about the goaltending than others, but if we have a 3rd pair and 3rd line that gets caved in on a nightly basis it wouldn't really matter if we had Price in goal. Teams will exploit that every single time they are on the ice with ease.

Has Granlund signed anywhere yet?

Having two players like this on one line is creating a line that will get hemmed in their own zone on a regular basis.

Matheson isn't terrible at getting the puck out, and these metrics show he is at least 3rd pairing quality in this area, but Ceci on the other hand is in JJ territory and we all know what having someone like that on a pairing will do.

If you have this pair out with the McCann line? You could have Price, Vas or Gibson out there it's more likely than not that a goal is going in.

JJ was on the ice for like 70% of the goals against in the series against MTL. Probably responsive for like 50%. He was definitely the main problem against MTL. 2nd would be goaltending and 3rd roster construction. Of course there are multiple problems but icing the worst player in the NHL has its repercussions. Now we have the 2nd worst player in the NHL in Ceci, so we’ll see how that goes.
- j.boyd919

If only we could have kept Gudbranson and been rid of JJ a year sooner. That was a reclamation project that actually showed some promise.

Dude, give him a chance! He hasn't even played one game as a Penguin! He only played top-four minutes before. Geez! Oh wait... I'm not Barnaby.

I'm far more optimistic about the goaltending than others, but if we have a 3rd pair and 3rd line that gets caved in on a nightly basis it wouldn't really matter if we had Price in goal. Teams will exploit that every single time they are on the ice with ease.
- Rinosaur

I think its much more possible for Ceci to get scratched than JJ due to JR not being in love with him since drafting him and him also not being Sids bff. So I'm not sure we'll see him in the lineup every night if he stinks it up.

Individual stats kind of foreshadow that the 3rd line might not be good but we dont know for sure how those 3 ingredients will mix. There's a guy 2 season removed from potting 17 and then 14 the next going to be there, and I really did like a lot of what I saw from ERod whenever he had a chance. At one point I said Id try him with Sid the way he was playing. Again, stats seem to tell us it will be bad but for me this is more of a wait and see/give it a chance than say Ceci or JJ haha. I'm not even cautiously optimistic about it, just think maybe they might mix well.

Its a low paid gamble, the 3rd line, and I'd much rather of paid a bit more for more sure fire pieces. What's being gambled here is Sid and Geno's window time.

I think its much more possible for Ceci to get scratched than JJ due to JR not being in love with him since drafting him and him also not being Sids bff. So I'm not sure we'll see him in the lineup every night if he stinks it up.

Individual stats kind of foreshadow that the 3rd line might not be good but we dont know for sure how those 3 ingredients will mix. There's a guy 2 season removed from potting 17 and then 14 the next going to be there, and I really did like a lot of what I saw from ERod whenever he had a chance. At one point I said Id try him with Sid the way he was playing. Again, stats seem to tell us it will be bad but for me this is more of a wait and see/give it a chance than say Ceci or JJ haha. I'm not even cautiously optimistic about it, just think maybe they might mix well.

Its a low paid gamble, the 3rd line, and I'd much rather of paid a bit more for more sure fire pieces. What's being gambled here is Sid and Geno's window time.
- MattStrat

Obviously I can't say without a shadow of a doubt that the third line will be bad, but we're not talking about dynamic players to begin with, so I don't see how any kind of chemistry with these guys could really make much of a difference. Erod and Jank won't all of a sudden find the ability to drive play. They're complimentary players and at the level they're at you really only hope to have one of them on a line at a time.

Obviously I can't say without a shadow of a doubt that the third line will be bad, but we're not talking about dynamic players to begin with, so I don't see how any kind of chemistry with these guys could really make much of a difference. Erod and Jank won't all of a sudden find the ability to drive play. They're complimentary players and at the level they're at you really only hope to have one of them on a line at a time.
- Rinosaur

Oh I agree, just hold a very small faint hope that they might form something half competent haha

Having two players like this on one line is creating a line that will get hemmed in their own zone on a regular basis.
- Rinosaur

Look at both of their 3 year samples not just a single shortened season with barely any minutes. Looks a lot better over 3 years

Look at both of their 3 year samples not just a single shortened season with barely any minutes. Looks a lot better over 3 years
- MHurl

Why would I look at three years ago? I want recent analysis.

Why would I look at three years ago? I want recent analysis.
- Rinosaur

Sample size. That sample is like 8 or 9 games (I divided 135 mins by 15 mins a game) for those guys.

Why would I look at three years ago? I want recent analysis.
- Rinosaur

Because what does 100 plus minutes really tell you?

Thanks for the tips. I’ll have to do some research, and try a few things out to see how they work. This offseason has definitely left me uninterested, so I’m not sure if ill even care about watching them. That’s probably a lie. My tune will change once it starts up again. There’s most likely more doom & gloom than is deserved, but it is defeating to watch gmjr make so many ill advised decisions. In my opinion, even more so that upper management lets him.

Who was Jankowski playing with 2 and 3 years ago when his goals/stats were halfway decent? Linemates?

Sample size. That sample is like 8 or 9 games (I divided 135 mins by 15 mins a game) for those guys.
- MattStrat

Those are micro stats so that’s a plenty large sample size.

Sample size. That sample is like 8 or 9 games (I divided 135 mins by 15 mins a game) for those guys.
- MattStrat

Except they weren't deemed good enough to play 15 minutes a game.

Except they weren't deemed good enough to play 15 minutes a game.
- Rinosaur

Hahahah I thought about that after the post wondering what their actual TOI was. I obviously didn't look but figured 15ish was a good estimate. How far off was I?

Hahahah I thought about that after the post wondering what their actual TOI was. I obviously didn't look but figured 15ish was a good estimate. How far off was I?
- MattStrat

I took a quick glance at Jank and it was around seven minutes.

Those are micro stats so that’s a plenty large sample size.
- Mr_Underwood

I understand what you mean ... But I still can't totally wrap my head around it because its still only 10 to 15 games (I think).

I took a quick glance at Jank and it was around seven minutes.
- Rinosaur

Holy sh!t that's it?! What about the two seasons before? Haha

Those are micro stats so that’s a plenty large sample size.
- Mr_Underwood

That's what she said

Holy sh!t that's it?! What about the two seasons before? Haha
- MattStrat

Sorry, I must have been looking at a game stat. Here's the actuals...

19/20: 11:06
18/19: 12:42

That's what she said
- 668710

Ha! Nicely done, sir.

Yeah, beggars can't be choosers and Jankowski at 3C sounds pretty sketchy. However, if we are putting out $3M for Haula, dig a little deeper and find another $2M to get Granlund (if that's what it takes and he wants to come here). We are also really thin at RW and Granlund actually defends, too (in addition to not being an injury risk).

Honestly, if it means adding a 2nd or a 3rd to dump Tanev, I do it. What's the difference between Tanev and Rodrigues? Not a lot. What's the difference between Rodrigues and Granlund? A ton. Even if Granlund plays center, the RWs of ERod and Sceviour are a better scenario than Haula with ERod and Tanev, IMO.
- Hockey66

If you would go after granlund for 5m you might as well just go after the Hoffman. That bumps a better winger down to the 3rd line who could help McCann drive play. If Poulin can even be carried by Sid or geno, let alone hold his own, you now have a pretty solid possible 3rd line with 2 better players supporting McCann.

I think that would have a better net benefit even though it doesn’t directly address centre. For remaining teams with cap space Pitt prob is a good destination for a goal scorer on a 1 or 2 yr contract.

Just gotta keep hoff’s gf away from mrs malkin.