No sir, Brodie, McCabe, Klingberg, Giordano and Edmundson (frank)ing suck.
- Rare_Jewel

They do, but the difference is negligible.

The list was made last year so it's easy to find.

Graves @ 4.5 million AAV over 6 years
Mayfield @ 4.5 million AAV over 6 years (more money in a shorter time period)
Schenn @ 2.75 million AAV over 3 years
Gustafsson @ 1 million AAV over 2 years (more than he was offered)

Rielly / Mayfield
Graves / Schenn
Gustafsson / Liljegren

That's a way bigger, tougher blueline to play against. And worth every single penny.

And doesn't even include what you could have got if they traded Nylander.

I guarantee you that blueline smashes teams physically, blocks shots, doesn't suck a fat donkey on the PK and plays playoff hockey 10 times better than the soft serve garbage the Leafs tried to put on this ice this year.
- Rare_Jewel

I like a big physical blue line but that one ain't winning. Mayfield chose to stay. Graves has struggled this year and as much as I love Schenn he's not a difference maker any more on the 3rd pair. And that ignores that Tree wasn't given the cap space to be able to add those guys.

Sir, that blueline absolutely (frank)ing sucks.
- BINGO!

Can't we all just agree that the Leafs get Pesce this summer? Maybe Skjie too?

the extra snot has done nothing but make the team blow
- senstroll

Nope that’s your beloved Muskoka 4 😆😆😆😆😆😆

It’s hilarious observing from the outside and then coming here to read all the delusions and insanity.
You guys hate reality it’s amazing 😆😆😆😆😆

Can't we all just agree that the Leafs get Pesce this summer? Maybe Skjie too?
- The Law

Absolutely. Definitely one or the other at minimum.

The list was made last year so it's easy to find.

Graves @ 4.5 million AAV over 6 years
Mayfield @ 4.5 million AAV over 6 years (more money in a shorter time period)
Schenn @ 2.75 million AAV over 3 years
Gustafsson @ 1 million AAV over 2 years (more than he was offered)

Rielly / Mayfield
Graves / Schenn
Gustafsson / Liljegren

That's a way bigger, tougher blueline to play against. And worth every single penny.

And doesn't even include what you could have got if they traded Nylander.

I guarantee you that blueline smashes teams physically, blocks shots, doesn't suck a fat donkey on the PK and plays playoff hockey 10 times better than the soft serve garbage the Leafs tried to put on this ice this year.
- Rare_Jewel

It's not about having a hard hitting D, it's about being hard to play against with skill as well. What good is hitting people if you can't ever clear the zone?

Oh, and Graves was putrid this season.

They do, but the difference is negligible.
- BINGO!

Absolutely incorrect. There's a big difference.

For starters, physical size. The Leafs with Graves, Mayfield and Schenn have a team physically capable of making a difference in physical playoff battles. We saw it with Schenn last year where he went from bottom pair D to our best RHD purely because of his physical, simple, reliable game.

Bigger, stronger players in their prime years who play simple, stronger playoff style.

I like a big physical blue line but that one ain't winning. Mayfield chose to stay. Graves has struggled this year and as much as I love Schenn he's not a difference maker any more on the 3rd pair. And that ignores that Tree wasn't given the cap space to be able to add those guys.
- The Law

Graves did not struggle, he had a good year on a bad team. Mayfield stayed because nobody gave him a better offer. He became a UFA but the Leafs could have swayed him. Schenn was a big difference maker last year when the games mattered most. Can he do it for 82 games? No. But that's not what we needed him for.

Treliving is a Shanahan puppet. He didn't have the space he needed because he didn't create it and wasted what little he had.

If he simply dumped Brodie and didn't sign Klingberg, he had all the cap space he needed to add depth to the blueline.

He didn't because he and his puppet master is a moron.

Absolutely. Definitely one or the other at minimum.
- BINGO!

It's always been Pesces dream to play...no I can't.

He's got the "I just scratched my butt and now I'm smelling my fingers look"

- Whipper

Absolutely. Definitely one or the other at minimum.
- BINGO!

Perfect. I'll take a Pesce and a Dillon or Tanev type this summer please and thankyou.

It's not about having a hard hitting D, it's about being hard to play against with skill as well. What good is hitting people if you can't ever clear the zone?

Oh, and Graves was putrid this season.
- jmatchett383

Nope.

Solid player on a bad team.

Graves did not struggle, he had a good year on a bad team. Mayfield stayed because nobody gave him a better offer. He became a UFA but the Leafs could have swayed him. Schenn was a big difference maker last year when the games mattered most. Can he do it for 82 games? No. But that's not what we needed him for.

Treliving is a Shanahan puppet. He didn't have the space he needed because he didn't create it and wasted what little he had.

If he simply dumped Brodie and didn't sign Klingberg, he had all the cap space he needed to add depth to the blueline.

He didn't because he and his puppet master is a moron.
- Rare_Jewel

Sure ...thanks Darren.

Graves did not struggle, he had a good year on a bad team. Mayfield stayed because nobody gave him a better offer. He became a UFA but the Leafs could have swayed him. Schenn was a big difference maker last year when the games mattered most. Can he do it for 82 games? No. But that's not what we needed him for.

Treliving is a Shanahan puppet. He didn't have the space he needed because he didn't create it and wasted what little he had.

If he simply dumped Brodie and didn't sign Klingberg, he had all the cap space he needed to add depth to the blueline.

He didn't because he and his puppet master is a moron.
- Rare_Jewel

one does not simply dump an aging Brodie

Nope.

Solid player on a bad team.
- Rare_Jewel

I'll take it you didn't watch many Penguina games this year.

Hands down worst defenseman in a bad team. Looked like he was skating in quicksand all year

Perfect. I'll take a Pesce and a Dillon or Tanev type this summer please and thankyou.
- The Law

Tanev a lock. ALso ive seen 0 mins of his time in Dallas

Can't we all just agree that the Leafs get Pesce this summer? Maybe Skjie too?
- The Law

that would be nice but I don't think Pesce want to play in Canada

one does not simply dump an aging Brodie
- drexel

you need to flush it also!!!?????

If they don't beat Boston, they'd better. He's the root of the problem.

How many times have you seen teams that are far less talented than this one play much better and more cohesive because the coaches have instilled it in the players? I know we say things like Liljegren, Benoit, Lyubushkin, Edmundson - how can you expect anything other than this result?

There's a certain truth to it, but the Penguins first cup was won with a defensive core led by 34 year old Gonchar, Rob Scuderi, Brooks Orpik, Hal Gill, Mark Eaton and 21 year old Kris Letang, who played very sheltered minutes in the playoffs. The goalie was Marc-Andre Fleury, who was the third worst goalie in those playoffs with a GSAx of -6.2. But they had Crosby and Malkin - and then 38 year old Guerin and what . . . Fedotenko? Kunitz who scored 1 goal?

At the end of the day this is a team that has hinged it's entire success on emulating that type of Penguins' model and the personnel they have here have failed completely up front. I do wonder why this team with ever changing personnel up front - larger guys, historically good playoff guys, tougher guys - and so on - all keep failing to produce results here.

If it isn't the coaching, then it's rooted and they'll need to salt the Earth.
- Monkeypunk

Issue is the team is not built for playoffs. No defence and yes some of the best players at forward for regular season, but there is no depth to the lineup. Look at Florida and Carolina....now that is depth.

I'll take it you didn't watch many Penguina games this year.

Hands down worst defenseman in a bad team. Looked like he was skating in quicksand all year
- jmatchett383

Watched enough to know he wasn't the problem. Playing with the likes of freewheelers like Karlsson and Letang will make bigger, slower players look worse than they really are because they're being forced to play a style that doesn't suit their strengths. Penguins were a bad situation with a poor strategy.

Lots of blocked shots (142), lots of PK time (2 min per game), big body (6'5" 220), +10. He was only on the ice for 38 EVGA which is half as many as Karlsson, Letang and Pettersson.

By comparison, Rielly EVGA: 83. Brodie: 68. McCabe: 57. Benoit: 41. Liljegren: 39.

Better than 5 regular Leafs D. So if Graves was "putrid" but still better than 5 of the Leafs top 6, I'll still take him at his worst. On the Leafs, Graves would have fit in nicely on the 2nd pair and a giant upgrade over Brodie as long as he didn't have to cover for Rielly.

one does not simply dump an aging Brodie
- drexel

His old bones would have loved the weather in Arizona.

Well you can always find solace in his previous job. Look how well the Calgary Flames are doi....

Oh....

Oh no.....
- Scabeh

You're mean.

Keep up the good work!

Issue is the team is not built for playoffs. No defence and yes some of the best players at forward for regular season, but there is no depth to the lineup. Look at Florida and Carolina....now that is depth.
- dakotamoe

Some teams have D and no goalie. Other teams have no D and a great goalie.

The Leafs have no D AND no goalie.

When you expect your guys to score 4 goals, every single game, to win, you're destined to lose in the playoffs.

The Leafs can't afford D. But they can afford a new coach and a goalie.

That's their only hope at this point.

Sure ...thanks Darren.
- The Law

You're welcome Brendan.

Some teams have D and no goalie. Other teams have no D and a great goalie.

The Leafs have no D AND no goalie.

When you expect your guys to score 4 goals, every single game, to win, you're destined to lose in the playoffs.

The Leafs can't afford D. But they can afford a new coach and a goalie.

That's their only hope at this point.
- Rare_Jewel

Shoulda signed Helleybuck. Demko would be a huge help right now too. I mean he is carrying Vancouver right.