On Saturday I posted the first part of my sit down with Kerry Fraser. In this second part, we go over what the NHL’s expectations of the referees are. This is tied into Eklund’s blog from a couple of days ago asking if penalties should be different in the late stages of the game and overtime (this can be seen
here ).
For those who don’t know who Fraser is, he was an NHL referee for the better part of 30 years. During his time in the NHL, he set the record for the most regular season games worked with 1,904 and the most post season games worked with 261. In addition he was selected to referee 12 different Stanley Cup Finals and in his first he became the youngest referee ever to do so.
A few weeks ago I included Kerry as part of my series “HHOF: Making the Case”, where I outline different candidate’s cases for the Hockey Hall of Fame. This can be seen here:
HHOF Making the Case: Kerry Fraser
Below is the second of three parts of our conversation which will be finished at the end of the week. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adam Kirshenblatt: Why is it that the calls at the beginning of the game are not the same as the ones within the last few minutes of the 3rd period?
Kerry Fraser: My philosophy is that calls I don’t make affect the game just as much as the ones I do. The reason the calls change near the end of the game is because of the fallout. Because of the crowd reaction. Because of the expectations of the players and the coaches, “Let us decided the outcome of the game”. Don Cherry and the philosophy he harps on.
I had an argument with Don Cherry in 1989 in Montreal at the Forum. I worked Game 3, John McCauley was the referee-in-chief and he said “Kerry you’ve got to bring this series back. Bring the hammer down, because it’s out of control.” So I went in, a lot of penalties in the first period, a lot of coincidental penalties in the 2nd. I was managing the game. Then we played the 3rd and I think we had one set of coincidental minors. We went to the first overtime with no penalties at all, great hockey being played. We went into the 2nd overtime and almost went through without a call being made and I see a play where Shayne Corson has the puck about 6-8 feet from the boards. He’s in the end zone, about to shoot the puck out of the zone. Then I see Mark Hunter from Calgary approach him from 15 feet, full speed. Corson shoots the puck, Hunts keeps coming where I’m saying to myself “Hunts don’t hit him, Hunts don’t hit him, DON’T HIT HIM”, POW! Drove his head straight into the boards. Now what do I do? It’s a penalty I got to call it.
Sure enough as luck would have it, the penalty had just expired with less than 2 min in the overtime. Hunts just got out of the box, just got to the blue line where Montreal scores the winning goal with seconds left. He never got in the play. Now I’m the big bad wolf right? They’re all pissed off at me. The next day was the Stanley Cup Luncheon and all the media huddled around McCauley and me. John McCauley said as the referee-in-chief, “If Fraser didn’t make that call, he might as well stayed in the dressing room and not even go out there.”
It’s about fear factor, if the player has the fear that you’re going to make the call, then the less likely the player will take the penalty. I just got off the phone with Ron Fournier from Montreal, and he referenced the Alain Côte goal I disallowed in 1987, in relation to Francis Charron disallowing the Tampa Bay goal in game 3 [this playoff]. He said “there weren’t many referees that would have disallowed the goal that I disallowed, it was the right call and a courageous call. Not many guys would make that call”. Others based on the time and situation would have let it happen, but I could never do that. I knew as I saw that play unfold I knew I was screwed, I knew it was a no-win situation. I knew that the only thing I could do to look at myself in the mirror was to make the right call because it wasn’t right.
Adam Kirshenblatt Do the Refs have any input on the overall strategy for the NHL in regards to what they want and don’t want called?
Kerry Fraser: A lot of the time it depends on the outcome, result oriented. I made the right call and it was acknowledged in 1987 in the Montreal vs. Quebec game where I disallowed Alain Côte’s goal. I had done the Stanley Cup Finals 1985, 1986, and here was 1987. I had done 7 out of 7 games in the first round. This game was game 5 in the second round where I had done 5 out of 5 games. I was acknowledged and regarded as one of the best referees in the game. After that game I was dropped like a hot potato.
There was a threat of a lawsuit from fans. I was back in Sarnia after getting home and I heard on CHOK radio in Sarnia that a group of fans from Quebec had launched a lawsuit against referee Kerry Fraser for prejudice. Two teams from the province of Quebec and I was being sued for prejudice for disallowing a goal! So I called the office and spoke Jim Gregory where I said “Jim, I just heard this on the news” and he says “You haven’t gotten a subpoena yet have you?” where I said “no”. Where he said “Well we’ve heard reports and we’ve got it all taken care of. If you get a subpoena, you just send it off to New York where the legal team will handle everything. We’re behind you.”
Yeah they were behind me alright, I didn’t work another game in those playoffs. That’s the kind of results oriented practice that the league works in.
Another example is between the San José Sharks and the Vancouver Canucks in last year’s playoffs. Kelly Sutherland called a penalty in OT of game 4, where it was a penalty! Daniel Sedin hit Tommy Wingels without the puck, which was 15 feet in the other direction. Wingels had turned to move to the puck and Sedin hit him from the back shoulder and took him into the boards awkwardly. Kelly was the neutral zone ref and was at the red line, he made the call. The other guy was 20 feet from it and he didn’t want to make the call. The guy with the courage did. He got dropped.
What’s the message to the other referees? Don’t make that call, which is ridiculous because it’s a penalty. So the message is don’t call it late in the game cause we’re not going to defend you or support you.
Adam Kirshenblatt: There was a situation a few years ago where Stephane Auger allegedly told the Vancouver Canucks’ Alexandre Burrows that he was going to “get him” because he made Auger look foolish due to a missed diving call. Does that type of thing happen often?
Kerry Fraser: Players can misconstrue situations. If there is an emotional situation, I would want to bypass the captain and talk straight to the coach because if I tell you something and you think you hear it a certain way. You’ll then repeat that to the coach in the way that you heard it which ends up being a mess. In this particular case, video shows Stephane Auger skated up to Burrows before the National Anthems, and there was conversations. Then he went about calling certain penalties which were suspicious. He didn’t do himself any favours for sure. I can’t believe any referee would tell a player “I’m going to get you”. It defies any kind of professional logic. If you’re going to do it, you’re going to do it. You’re not going to tell him beforehand.
Perhaps you’ll hold him to a different standard, which also isn’t right, but it’s human nature. If a player is a known diver, he’s on my list, I’m going to make sure if he’s touched it has to really be a foul. If he does any sort of embellishment on that he will not get the call. That’s just using sound judgement based on history where the player has tried to fool you and cheat.
Adam Kirshenblatt: How have your views on the media changed since you’ve joined TSN?
Kerry Fraser: Well I’ve always gotten along with the media, I was media friendly and media savvy. It’s about honesty. Sports organizations and sports leagues want to spin things. I don’t spin it. If an official makes the wrong call, I can’t say it’s the right call because I’m part of a fraternity and I have to be honest and have credibility. I have to have that honesty and integrity in every comment that I make in order to maintain that credibility. What I try to do with my position in the media is to educate fans. They have to understand from the perspective that I can share with them, as an on-ice official, why plays are missed. It’s not that they are just incompetent, but they have a certain sight line. Maybe they were blocked out? There are ways for the fans to be educated but maybe it can help the officials that are reading it, at all levels. I get that comment constantly from people who go to “C’mon Ref”. A lot of amateur hockey officials come on that site and tell me how much they learn. It’s a responsibility I don’t take lightly.
Adam Kirshenblatt: Players and Coaches have to be available to the media after every game. Do you think Officials should have that same responsibility?
Kerry Fraser: They won’t be made available. I think some are capable, some are media savvy. However many aren’t. So they have to have a rule across the board that officials don’t talk to the media. Media follow me because when a play happens, they want to know in the moment what Kerry Fraser thinks. The reason is they don’t get that feedback from the league. When Francis Charron makes that call in Game 3 against the Lightning, people want to know why and the league doesn’t always put it out there. The NHL is hesitant, they hope it goes away and the focus will shift. There needs to be a better method of communication to the fans and the media but right now I’m able to provide it.
Part Three of this conversation will be posted here on Friday
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