If there was a day that hockey fans and the media alike were waiting for on pins and needles, this one was it! For the first time in the month-long plus lockout, a party, namely the owners, had made what appeared to be, at least on the surface, a genuine move to table an offer that seemed to contain substantive concessions. The NHLPA took this offer aside for a day to deconstruct and evaluate it, setting the stage for a Thursday afternoon meeting that many viewed as a turning point in negotiations. Most fans and media were espousing optimism. The mood was one of relief, and the sense was that there was a season to be had.
Then you’ve got people like me...
Don’t get me wrong! This isn’t a “told you so” moment, nor me being the hipster of the hockey world where I can say I saw this before anyone else did! Far from it. Quite simply, it just boils down to me being more pessimistic in nature, and subsequently I don’t become overly optimistic in situations like this unless I’ve got a damn good reason too! Indeed, being Mr. Pessimist, I looked at Tuesday’s offer as a swing move to garner public support, feeling that claiming to be offering a 50-50 split of hockey related revenue while also stating, in effect, that HRR remained to be defined was nothing for the PA to get overly excited about yet. I mean, 50% of what? Books can be cooked, and smoke and mirrors shows can lead to 50% not actually being 50%. Add in a variety of other opinions I have on these negotiations (i.e., this is about setting a tone for the next round of CBA negotiations also, there are fundamental trust issues still playing a huge factor here, the framework of the deal is a long ways off of what the players have been coming off of thus far, etc...), and needless to say I was not ready to buy in just yet. Could a deal be had? Sure. In time for a November 2nd start date? No way...
All that being said, I’m also not one who feels that things are going to unravel 100% how I feel they might, if at all! I feel like I’m quite receptive to other viewpoints, and in fact welcome them and discussions related to why people think they might be different. It’s that type of curiosity that makes me a sucker for social media!!! A hundred different viewpoints instantaneously? Me likey!!! So needless to say I was glued to Twitter Thursday like an obese thought and an opinion buffet. In the process of doing so I cut and pasted what I thought would be some interesting reports of the day in 140 characters or less. Some of these names you know, some you won’t. Some of the posts are factual and profound. Others are downright light and funny. But they all reflect people taking this in the moment at different levels, and give such a varied context for seeing the afternoon unfold.
I hope that you can find some of your own experience in these, or widen your perspective in some way. If anything else, reading some of these will leave you with a sense of how off or foreshadowing some of these messages were! Crazy stuff folks...
APPROXIMATELY 12pm EST
@Winging It In Motown
I'm kind of just hoping today's NHLPA proposal isn't just a 700+ page document where every page is a photocopy of a different player's butt.
Tom Gulitti @TGfireandice
There's nothing that says the NHLPA has to base its proposal on NHL's. But if it's not, then they're still talking 2 different languages.
@ChrisWasselTHW
NHL Owners blindsided by Bettman offer....no one should be surprised....some owners...some.
@DarrenDreger
Today is most significant to date in the CBA negs. If PA proposal prompts ongoing talk there will be hockey. If not season is in jeopardy.
@tpanotchCSN
if there is going to be sustained talks, Fehr has to work off the NHL's proposal at this point
Bruce Garrioch @SunGarrioch
So what happens if the NHLPA ignores the NHL's new proposal and re-submits it's old proposal with small changes? Anything is possible.
@bcostellothn
Wade Redden and $6.5M cap hit on Rangers books for two more seasons. Latest NHL offer would include AHLers as part of team salary cap.
John Shannon @JSportsnet
If there's NHL hockey on Nov. 2, there has to be a "sign" of momentum that started on Tuesday by the NHL and continued by the PA today.
Remember importance of Oct. 25...NHL could be cancelling many games, All-star and WC if no progress...and players get their escrow cheques.
Chris Johnston (@reporterchris)
Training camps would have to open a week tomorrow for the NHL season to start on Nov. 2. #ticktock
Aaron Portzline (@Aportzline)
NHL offer was pretty close to genius. It put the league on top of always-important PR battle, and it shifted all pressure now to the #NHLPA.
How big are next few days? Told at least one player in Europe has asked not to play weekend games for his club, in case NHL deal is close.
On the flip side, told a "flood" of players will go to Europe by mid- to late next week depending on NHL's response to NHLPA counter.
Scott Burnside @ESPN_Burnside
An 82-game season makes lockout a dream sequence. Players get full pay (whatever that is in new deal) and optics for league much better.
David Pagnotta @TheFourthPeriod
A source close to CBA talks told me the x-factor (aka ESCROW) in these negotiations isn't as bad as initially feared, which is encouraging.
Brian Lawton @brianlawton9
I expect some bumps in road today for @NHL & @NHLPA but you always hope for the best! Foolish if a deal is not consummated in days. #gotime
Down Goes Brown @DownGoesBrown
Crosby, Iginla and Staal reportedly in Toronto today, presumably because the new CBA Brian Burke wrote somehow makes them all Maple Leafs.
Bob McKenzie @TSNBobMcKenzie
If NHLPA counter today works off NHL proposal, there'll be traction/negotiation. If NHLPA counter is different conceptually, it'll be Fugly.
APPROXIMATELY 1PM
Kevin McGran @kevin_mcgran
#nhlpa is "responding" to #nhl offer, not necessarily "counter offering"
Bruce Garrioch @SunGarrioch
Looks like today's meeting pushed back to 1:30 pm at earliest.
Kevin McGran @kevin_mcgran
there will be "something" significant coming from players today #nhl #nhlpa #lockout PA thinks league will need a day or 2 to digest it
Elliotte Friedman @FriedgeHNIC
Meeting pushed back to 230. NHLPA equivalent of icing the kicker.
David Pagnotta @TheFourthPeriod
Reason for pushing start time is NHLPA had committee conf call to review offer. Call is over, but they're taking some time before pitching
Adam Proteau @Proteautype
Hope you're stretching, Twitter Fail Whale. It's about to get all NHL lockouty up in here.
Aaron Ward @aaronward_nhl
Per player source,NHLPA #CBA proposal "should be interesting today because it comes closer to NHL ideology". #TSN
APPROXIMATELY 2PM
Kevin McGran @kevin_mcgran
i may have overstated the pa having "something" significant. it's more a "could". #nhlpa #nhl #Lockout2012
Adam Proteau @Proteautype
Rumor A: Roberto Luongo will be dealt to Toronto when the lockout ends. Rumor B: Roberto Luongo now wants CBA talks to continue until 2022.
Elliotte Friedman @FriedgeHNIC
NHL contingent on its way to NHLPA offices
Kevin McGran @kevin_mcgran
fan says fans feel neglected. bettman says, please don't we're trying very hard
Chip Alexander @ice_chip
They're all set to begin in Toronto. Hockey fans can begin holding their collective breath now.
David Shoalts @dshoalts
Interesting sidelight to NHL-NHLPA meetings. Large number of women have errands to run in lobby around anticipated time of players' arrival.
Ryan Etics @ryantologist
Until he had Daly give Fehr a Hot Karl. RT @FriedgeHNIC: Bettman: we're "going to get a deal done." Was an interesting, respectful exchange.
Greg Wyshynski @wyshynski
I would hug Bettman if he turned to media and said, "I haven't seen this many people with false hope since I fixed the Crosby lottery."
Adam Proteau @Proteautype
If NHL CBA talks bog down, I say they just turn off the boardroom lights a la the 87 World Junior "Punch-up in Piestany" & sort it that way.
L.A. Lariviere @L_A_theRiver
According to my colleague Mathieu Dandenault, the NHLPA will submit 4 different offers to the #NHL. All include 50-50 clauses on rev sharing
David Pagnotta @TheFourthPeriod
Of the 4 proposals being presented to the NHL by the NHLPA, all include a gradual step towards 50/50 split. Year 1 starts around 54/46.
Down Goes Brown @DownGoesBrown
Step 1: The NHL takes the NHLPA's four offers back to their office overnight. Step 2: The offers form together like Voltron. Step 3: Carnage
Sarah Connors @sarah_connors
I imagine Bettman receiving those offers will go like this: "One offer. 2 offers. THREE OFFERS. FOUR OFFERS! AH AH AH!
Ray Ferraro @rayferrarotsn
If theres stepdown to 50/50 ,IMO there is nothing that will prevent a deal being made - if NHL insists on immediate 50/50, there's trouble
Kent Wilson @Kent_Wilson
NHLPA's new strategy: make proposals like hydra heads - reject one and four pop up in its place.
Kevin McGran @kevin_mcgran
very funny watching media walk around concourse - coffee shop to coffee shop -- laptops open, looking for free wifi
Anthrax Jones @AnthraxJones
Included in Bettman's next NHL proposal: a cap on the number of proposals the PA can make so the owners can have proposal certainty.
Steve Dangle Glynn @Steve_Dangle
"GLOWING PUCKS! CAPTAIN HIGHLINER JERSEYS! COMPLETELY CHANGE HALF THE RULES! 3 LOCKOUTS! 4 CBA PROPOSALS AT ONCE!" - The NHL in my lifetime.
James Mirtle @mirtle
NHLPA proposals tentatively titled: Choose Your Own Adventure
David Pagnotta @TheFourthPeriod
Approaching 1 hour since NHL brass arrived. Talks still ongoing.
David Shoalts @dshoalts
NHL-PA meeting over. This means either league wants to study NHLPA proposals or we have a major snit.
Elliotte Friedman @FriedgeHNIC
Bettman: tuesday we were hopeful and optimistic...we still believe (our offer) was a fair and balanced deal. The PA came back and made three alternate proposals...he says none of three variations even approaches 50/50
Dan Rosen @drosennhl
Bettman says the the Union made 3 alternate proposals on players share all variations of what they made this summer.
Elliotte Friedman @FriedgeHNIC
It's clear we are not speaking the same language...I am concerned based on proposals of today things are not progessing
Scott Cullen @tsnscottcullen
Bettman pours bucket of cold water on negotiations in initial remarks. NHLPA proposal "a step backward"
Ryan @rfan_3
Players look like the bad guys now for sure. This all worked out perfectly for the NHL
Chris Johnston @reporterchris
Gary Bettman says he's heading back to New York "disappointed."
Bruce Arthur @bruce_arthur
The players appear to have chosen principle over pragmatism. I suspect it won't end well for them.
Kevin McGran @kevin_mcgran
bettman: a number of teams thought we went too far with our last offer
JapersRink @JapersRink
If anyone needs me, I'll be drowing myself in the toilet, where you'll also find our site's traffic and my motivation to write about hockey.
Toronto Truculent @TOTruculent
Optimism was fun while it lasted. Shouldn't have let myself forget everyone in that room is a greedy Satanspawn.
Harrison Mooney @HarrisonMooney
Extremely disappointing. But in fairness, I'm pretty sure the NHL's offer was designed to make us feel like this.
Michael Grange @michaelgrange
Bettman -- we're done in an hour today because there was nothing there
Chris Johnston @reporterchris
Gary Bettman was clearly upset. He again finished with reporters by saying "I wish I had better news."
ryan lambert @twolinepass
can't believe everyone is biting so hard on what a known disingenuous slimeball puppet is saying before the other side gets to speak.
Stephen Whyno @SWhyno
This has become "fugly"
Meesh @HockeyMeesh
Everyone make fun of that NHL focus group, because based on your reactions, they just crushed the PR battle
David Shoalts @dshoalts
As soon as Gary Bettman stepped to microphone you knew it was bad news. Almost always he keeps his cool in public. This time he was seething
Ryan @rfan_3
Funny how only three days ago it was believed the NHL PR strategy was blowing up in their face.
Tim Panaccio @tpanotchCSN
We're about to enter Nuclear Winter. NHL rejects the NHLPA's counter proposals - 3 of them ... Season now up for cancellation in wks ahead
James Mirtle @mirtle
Withholding judgment until I actually see what PA actually offered but safe to say based on Bettman's reaction we will not get a full season
Kevin Cooney @KevinCooney
Its amazing that a league would willing throw away one season. Its completely criminal that a league would do it TWICE in 8 YEARS
Henrik Lundqvist @henriklundqvist
anybody know what a 50/50 split of nothing is??? because that's what the players and owners are going to be splitting at this rate
steve simmons @simmonssteve
We're not speaking the same language - sounds like a lot of marriages I know. And you know what happens to 50 percent of those?
Brian Costello @bcostellothn
If I'm an NHL player, I'm asking Fehr what the end game is here. My livelihood and career earnings depend upon it not being unreasonable.
TPB Derek @TPBderek
NHLPA seems on intent on breaking the owners, which will take a full year. It is shocking, but still. sucks
Spector's Hockey @SpectorsHockey
I'm no Bettman cheerleader, but admire the Commissioner's cunning. Hardball negotiating is as natural to him as breathing. #NHLCBA
Mike Brophy @HockeyBroph
Disagree with commish when he says language is an issue. Aren't both sides saying F! You!???
Bill Watters @RealBillWatters
Counterproposal has always been an integral part of meaningful bargaining.The Donald has not made ONE yet.He has made 5 proposals(diff page)
Damien Cox @DamoSpin
Hoping ppl seeing this for what it is now; not fault of owners OR players. A poisoned, trust-less relationship. Except they can't divorce.
APPROXIMATELY 4:30PM
David Pagnotta @TheFourthPeriod
NHLPA will address media within next 15-30 mins.
Stu Dolgon @StuDolgon
NYR raised my seats 36% from last season; 136% since season after last lockout.
David Pagnotta @TheFourthPeriod
Fehr will address the media soon, with players behind him. Then everyone's going back up to further discuss. Players won't talk til later.
JoshuaCooper @JoshuaCooper
Bettman wasn't going to come out and say, 'what wonderful ideas' but some of us were expecting a tiny level of optimism at least.
Pierre LeBrun @Real_ESPNLeBrun
NHL team exec on NHL/NHLPA: "They are both posturing."
Bruce Garrioch @SunGarrioch
Players offers fell to 50 percent over a five year term but sources say none guaranteed they'd get there. #NHL #NHLPA
Rick Springhetti @Rick1042
Hockey fans, If you really want to push both sides to come up with an agreement, don't be frustrated, be indifferent.
Steve Dangle Glynn @Steve_Dangle
Disappointing hockey news coming out of Toronto? The lockout isn't that different from having a season after all.
Becca H @BeccaH_JR
Ego + testosterone + media posturing = indefinite lockout. Clearly we have sent men in to do a woman's job.
Dennis Bernstein @DennisTFP
Best offer Bettman can make? Perhaps not. Bigger heat coming from unhappy NHL keystone sponsors. Long term relationships/deals on the line
Tim Panaccio @tpanotchCSN
So upset is Bettman and his entourage, they're headed to the airport to come back to NYC
Tom @blackhawks22
@88PKane @10PSharp Canceling my season tickets today. Thank your boy Fehr. #Blackhawks
James Gordon @SensReporter
Anger is so palpable this time. NHL won't bounce back like last time — mark my words.
Pierre LeBrun @Real_ESPNLeBrun
Fehr and players have arrived to meet media
Crosby and Toews in middle - standing behind Fehr
Elliotte Friedman @FriedgeHNIC
Fehr: there was a season ending lockout 8 years ago, that lockout ended with players agreeing to a 24 per cent roll back
In exchange, they would get certain contracting rights. The magnitude of the concession were $3.3 billion over the length of the CBA
NHL got record revenues, and biggest years of growth were last two years. So what proposal against that backdrop did owners make?
After proposals of 24 per cent and 17 per cent losses, most recent was 12. Players ask is that fair? What do we get?
He estimates it would be 1.8B. It's "not hard" to see whay owners think that would be a good deal.
What is the articulated reason that they want this other than NBA and NFL owners have a better deal than NHL owners do?
On "make whole" provision: I had one player say to me, so let me get this straight, if I play the next three years, what I make in year 3...
Would pay me for Year 1? Fehr said yes that's the way it would work
Proposal 1: fixed player share next three years, then options for how much it would be depending on growth
Fehr says it would have dropped toward 50 depending on that growth.
Pierre LeBrun @Real_ESPNLeBrun
Fehr says No 2 proposal gets owners down to 50 percent with "only five percent growth"
Fehr on No 3 proposal - players to go 50/50 as long as owners promise to honor all contracts that were signed by players
Mike Serven @mserven
And there it is. Owners don't want to honouuuuuur, current contracts.
Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger
Don't be surprised if the NHL responds to todays meeting by announcing the cancellation of a big chunk of games...tomorrow.
Curtis @Tudor_CT
The fact that owners like Leipold spent all that money this summer and WILL not honor them is kinda sickening. You did it signed them owners
Michael Grange @michaelgrange
Fehr -- our three proposals were rejected in about 15minutes and we were told they'd made their best offer #NHLPA #NHL
Thomas Drance @ThomasDrance
NHLPA needs to leak details stat. Based on their rejection of the third deal, it's probable that the NHL's most recent offer was a PR stunt.
Adam Proteau @Proteautype
NHLPA offered owners 50/50 split as long as current contracts were honored. If you say this is unfair, we have a different idea of fairness.
Nick Cotsonika @cotsonika
Fehr: "Today is not a good day. It should have been, but it wasn't."
Larry Brooks @NYP_Brooksie
PA proposes that owners pay what they have promised to pay. NHL calls that step backward.
Michael Grange @michaelgrange
Fehr -- the vibe we got was unless we were ready to sign their deal, don't bother us #NHLPA #NHL
draglikepull @draglikepull
This is the second time in a row the NHL has basically walked out on the PA. But the PR spin is that only the NHL is willing to negotiate.
@rmarcham: If the NHL owners signed those monster contracts in the summer thinking they'd never have to pay them in a new CBA...wow.
George Malik @georgemalik
No matter how the owners--or players--paint this, they're trying to get CBA "wins," and REAL CBA negotiations are about losing gracefully.
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