In what you posted there, I still don't see where teachers fit in as an essential service.
- Feeling Glucky?

I never asserted that teachers were/are an essential service. I asked you the question because it was unclear to me. What I posted for you, as indicated, was an fyi.

Being rather selective though on what Acts you support.

I never asserted that teachers were/are an essential service. I asked you the question because it was unclear to me. What I posted for you, as indicated, was an fyi.

Being rather selective though on what Acts you support.
- dawgzhouse

I'm gonna admit: I'm lost here.

I assume they're not.
- laughs2907

And yet, in my experience they do work on weekends, building lesson plans and marking.

I don't think you'll find too many people that actually agree it's the right thing to do to.

But I also don't think you'll find too many people outside the teaching profession that think they're in the right either, bargaining for the increases they are, when they're at the salaries they already are, and in the situation they are. They're paid VERY fairly, and the constant threat of strike, and the b!tching you get out of teachers is way out of hand. And has been for many, many, many years.

Shut up and recognize that you have it pretty good. Deservedly so, I get that, but you still have it pretty good. So shut up and do the job that you're paid quite well to do.
- prock

I wasn't suggesting teachers are an essential service. I actually think they are as essential as the TTC and the TTC was deemed an essential service in 2010...but that is a different matter.

Whether or not they should 'shut-up' or not is a different discussion than one regarding the right to strike. They should have the right to strike and you should have the right to tell them to shut-up.

I assume they're not.
- laughs2907

Common sense agrees.

I'm gonna admit: I'm lost here.
- Feeling Glucky?

You don't support the current legislation yet used legislation to point out that by the definition teachers aren't an 'essential service.' It's seemingly inconsistent.

And yet, in my experience they do work on weekends, building lesson plans and marking.
- Feeling Glucky?

They do and while the rewards are high the pressure and stress is considerable. Most people do not realize this...my wife left the profession because there is equal money to be made without the stress and hours required.

People will argue about the amount of holidays teachers are afforded but if one was to examine the total hours, stress, and exhaustion of being a teacher I suspect most rational beings would agree that it is a demanding job.

And yet, in my experience they do work on weekends, building lesson plans and marking.
- Feeling Glucky?

My sister is a teacher. I've seen it first hand too. I'm not even going to argue that they don't work outside normal work hours.

But just about every profession that averages an $80K salary, you can say the exact same thing about. Do you honestly believe that teachers are working 50 hour weeks, while the rest of society, be it bankers, lawyers, hell, your average admin assistant, is hitting the 7.5 hour day and running home? Some sales people, practically never quit working.

Sorry, it doesn't work like that. The "but they work more than 8 to 3" doesn't fly with me, because that's nothing out of the ordinary, for the vast majority of society.

You don't support the current legislation yet used legislation to point out that by the definition teachers aren't an 'essential service.' It's seemingly inconsistent.
- dawgzhouse

No, it’s consistent. Essential services are not allowed to strike. This legislation essentially considers teachers essential services, in not allowing them to strike. He’s saying by that definition, they’re not an essential service, and should be allowed to strike. What he’s saying makes sense, and I actually agree with that.

Like I said from the beginning, I disagree with the approach. They should be allowed to strike. I just think they have absolutely no reason to right now, and I’m sick of hearing the threat of it, and the whining, and complaining. This is a prime example of unions getting out of hand.

Unless you’re saying that he’s essentially arguing that teachers ARE an essential service, but shouldn’t be treated as such? I don’t follow either.

My sister is a teacher. I've seen it first hand too. I'm not even going to argue that they don't work outside normal work hours.

But just about every profession that averages an $80K salary, you can say the exact same thing about. Do you honestly believe that teachers are working 50 hour weeks, while the rest of society, be it bankers, lawyers, hell, your average admin assistant, is hitting the 7.5 hour day and running home? Some sales people, practically never quit working.

Sorry, it doesn't work like that. The "but they work more than 8 to 3" doesn't fly with me, because that's nothing out of the ordinary, for the vast majority of society.
- prock

This was just disputing somebody who said they get all/most of their weekends off. They don't. I have first-hand evidence of this.

You don't support the current legislation yet used legislation to point out that by the definition teachers aren't an 'essential service.' It's seemingly inconsistent.
- dawgzhouse

I disagree with the new rule in favour of the old one, lol. That's the whole point.

IMO an essential service should only be something that you really couldn't go even a day without.

No, it’s consistent. Essential services are not allowed to strike. This legislation essentially considers teachers essential services, in not allowing them to strike. He’s saying by that definition, they’re not an essential service, and should be allowed to strike. What he’s saying makes sense, and I actually agree with that.

Like I said from the beginning, I disagree with the approach. They should be allowed to strike. I just think they have absolutely no reason to right now, and I’m sick of hearing the threat of it, and the whining, and complaining.

Unless you’re saying that he’s essentially arguing that teachers ARE an essential service, but shouldn’t be treated as such? I don’t follow either.
- prock

I asked for a personal opinion on whether Glucky thought teachers are an essential service. He used legislation to define and exclude teachers from this ‘category’ of employment. I found it curious that he used legislation to define his opinion yet used emotional arguments to discount the most recent legislation...instead of accepting this legislation. It seems inconsistent.

To answer the over-arching question, the Supreme Court in 1987 stated that unions did not have a constitutionally protected right to strike. This decision enables federal and provincial governments to enact back to work legislation or no strike legislation.

This was just disputing somebody who said they get all/most of their weekends off. They don't. I have first-hand evidence of this.
- Feeling Glucky?

Well, technically, they do. If they want to put the extra hours in on a Wednesday night, when need be, they certainly can. Again, just like the rest of us. I sometimes stay around the office late. If I’m too busy that week, sometimes I’ll get some done on the weekends.

I don’t think we disagree all that much. You just seem to defend teachers a hell of a lot more than I do.

I honestly think if they’d shut up, and we heard much less about striking, and much less complaining, they wouldn’t have to defend themselves nearly as much.

How many other professions do you hear as much strike talk (ironic given that this is a hockey board) from?

Well, technically, they do. If they want to put the extra hours in on a Wednesday night, when need be, they certainly can. Again, just like the rest of us. I sometimes stay around the office late. If I’m too busy that week, sometimes I’ll get some done on the weekends.

I don’t think we disagree all that much. You just seem to defend teachers a hell of a lot more than I do.

I honestly think if they’d shut up, and we heard much less about striking, and much less complaining, they wouldn’t have to defend themselves nearly as much.

How many other professions do you hear as much strike talk (ironic given that this is a hockey board) from?
- prock

Well, last time they were all strike-y was with Harris, who was very much against them, and now McGuinty is going down the same route, which is why the strike talk is back up.

I disagree with the new rule in favour of the old one, lol. That's the whole point.

IMO an essential service should only be something that you really couldn't go even a day without.
- Feeling Glucky?

And I agree with you for the most part.

Schools also act as daycares. Parents with several children in school depend on schools to take care of their children during the day as most parents work. Many parents could not afford to take time off of work, or pay for daycare, for the duration of a strike. Also, if parents don’t work they don’t pay taxes and teachers aren’t paid. This would seem fairly essential, yet not by the definition.

When the TTC was deemed an essential service the Minister of Labour said at the time: “This act takes into account the health and safety of the millions of riders who use the TTC as well as the unique impact that transit service has on the city's economic well-being." It would be difficult to argue this point and it is difficult to argue that teachers do not have an impact on the economic well-being of communities by extension of the same reasoning.

I asked for a personal opinion on whether Glucky thought teachers are an essential service. He used legislation to define and exclude teachers from this ‘category’ of employment. I found it curious that he used legislation to define his opinion yet used emotional arguments to discount the most recent legislation...instead of accepting this legislation. It seems inconsistent.

To answer the over-arching question, the Supreme Court in 1987 stated that unions did not have a constitutionally protected right to strike. This decision enables federal and provincial governments to enact back to work legislation or no strike legislation.
- dawgzhouse

Essentially service legislation is there to protect the public. It’s being exploited, in this case, to serve the provincial government’s purpose. Glucky is 100% correct, it’s not right. He’s also 100% correct, with the slippery slope argument…. If they can do it here, can they do this to any and every group that threatens strike, and the government doesn’t like it?

It’s the purpose behind the legislation, being misused, that he’s disagreeing with.

I asked for a personal opinion on whether Glucky thought teachers are an essential service. He used legislation to define and exclude teachers from this ‘category’ of employment. I found it curious that he used legislation to define his opinion yet used emotional arguments to discount the most recent legislation...instead of accepting this legislation. It seems inconsistent.

To answer the over-arching question, the Supreme Court in 1987 stated that unions did not have a constitutionally protected right to strike. This decision enables federal and provincial governments to enact back to work legislation or no strike legislation.
- dawgzhouse

I'm not even fully certain what banning strikes would accomplish... if they still decide to strike, what's going to happen? Are you going to fire them all? Arrest them? Gun them down south african style?

If the union still decides to strike, what power does anyone have to stop them?

Well, last time they were all strike-y was with Harris, who was very much against them, and now McGuinty is going down the same route, which is why the strike talk is back up.
- Feeling Glucky?

As much as I think the legislation is wrong, I don’t have much faith in the teacher’s unions to be reasonable in their negotiations to begin with.

As much as I think the legislation is wrong, I don’t have much faith in the teacher’s unions to be reasonable in their negotiations to begin with.
- prock

I'm leaving now, but my take on this winds up being the same with every other situation involving politics

Everything's broken and sucks.

I'm leaving now, but my take on this winds up being the same with every other situation involving politics

Everything's broken and sucks.
- Feeling Glucky?

Just like the NHL and NHLPA negotiations, they both suck, and they’re both greedy wieners. And I mean the unions, not necessarily the players and teachers themselves.

Well, technically, they do. If they want to put the extra hours in on a Wednesday night, when need be, they certainly can. Again, just like the rest of us. I sometimes stay around the office late. If I’m too busy that week, sometimes I’ll get some done on the weekends.

I don’t think we disagree all that much. You just seem to defend teachers a hell of a lot more than I do.

I honestly think if they’d shut up, and we heard much less about striking, and much less complaining, they wouldn’t have to defend themselves nearly as much.

How many other professions do you hear as much strike talk (ironic given that this is a hockey board) from?
- prock

Yup. And I'm just saying, in my experience, the teachers I know do nothing on the weekends.

Yup. And I'm just saying, in my experience, the teachers I know do nothing on the weekends.
- laughs2907

Teachers do no more or no less than the rest of us. They seem to think they do though.

Teachers do no more or no less than the rest of us. They seem to think they do though.
- prock

I agree.

My major beef is the b1tching about salaries and workload. Like you said, their salaries are pretty damn good, and their workloads are average. Quit the b1tching... You have it good!