Again, my knee jerk reaction is similar to many others in that the Victorino deal was fine, but Rube should have gotten more for Pence.

I hope I'm wrong and Joseph turns out to be the next Johnny Bench. It's just that Rube's overall moves since he's been GM, especially involving prospects, makes me a little skiddish.

Well, you very often call out people who would make deals in hockey saying they would use up too much salary for player X often times impuning their logic. In fact you often point out that Ryan is too expensive salary wise for what it would take to get in terms of prospects. Welcome to RAJ's world and Hunter Pence's! He's not worth the $14 miilion he's projected to get next year. Phillies got a starter, a top 100 prospect and a flier while freeing up $12.5 million. You couldn't expect much more and if you did you'd be over th eluxury tax two straight years and costin the organization tons of money.
- jstross

Comments I would make about using up too much money would have to do with the Salary Cap requirements in the NHL. If there was no Cap, and with the financial strength of Comcast backing the Flyers. It wouldn't otherwise be an issue would it? So how is that the same?

And for the 3rd time, the Phillies did not get a starter. Schierholtz has never been an every day player! The most AB's he has had in a Season is 335!

Baseball wise, it was a poor deal!

Pence is worth 14M. Look at the numbers that were posted on what Pence put up in 2011. That is worth it.

Again, my knee jerk reaction is similar to many others in that the Victorino deal was fine, but Rube should have gotten more for Pence.

I hope I'm wrong and Joseph turns out to be the next Johnny Bench. It's just that Rube's overall moves since he's been GM, especially involving prospects, makes me a little skiddish.
- 77rams

He probably won't.

We were talking about fielding. he can definately hit when there's no pressure. His ass is as water tight as a frog's under pressure.
- jstross

Pence is normally a better defensive player then he was this Season. I believe that Pence let the pressure of the situation get to him.

WOW, are you 10?
- jstross

No, I'm older then that. But I know what a pretty dam good 3rd baseman costs!

Comments I would make about using up too much money would have to do with the Salary Cap requirements in the NHL. If there was no Cap, and with the financial strength of Comcast backing the Flyers. It wouldn't otherwise be an issue would it? So how is that the same?

And for the 3rd time, the Phillies did not get a starter. Schierholtz has never been an every day player! The most AB's he has had in a Season is 335!

Baseball wise, it was a poor deal!

Pence is worth 14M. Look at the numbers that were posted on what Pence put up in 2011. That is worth it.
- MJL

Pence has the 21st ranked WAR among starting RFs and you think he's worth $14 million. Sheez. Come on man.

No, I'm older then that. But I know what a pretty dam good 3rd baseman costs!
- MJL

Here's the problem. You think you know so much you don't read entire posts. I said as part o---f a p--a--c--k--a--g--e. Sheez your game is way off tonight.

Pence is normally a better defensive player then he was this Season. I believe that Pence let the pressure of the situation get to him.
- MJL

aka Jayson Werth, but Werth was a superior fielder with great plate discipline. Werth is almost always top 10 in pitches against which makes everyone else around him better.

Pence has the 21st ranked WAR among starting RFs and you think he's worth $14 million. Sheez. Come on man.
- jstross

22 HR's, 97 RBI's, 84 Runs Scored, .308 with Houston and .324 with the Phils last year is not exactly what I'd call a bad year.


As was posted on the other page, yes he is worth it. Probably a slight overpayment. But worth it in the long run. I'll stick to the above stats rather then the sabremetrics.

What was his WAR last year?

Here's the problem. You think you know so much you don't read entire posts. I said as part o---f a p--a--c--k--a--g--e. Sheez your game is way off tonight.
- jstross

I read it. What else are they going to put in the package? Dom Brown? My game is exactly where it needs to be!

22 HR's, 97 RBI's, 84 Runs Scored, .308 with Houston and .324 with the Phils last year is not exactly what I'd call a bad year.


As was posted on the other page, yes he is worth it. Probably a slight overpayment. But worth it in the long run. I'll stick to the above stats rather then the sabremetrics.

What was his WAR last year?
- MJL

4.7 for both teams. I read the stats wrong the first time. Clearly under performed for the Phillies last year. Phils need OBP guys. I know Bourne is in the future but his WAR is like 4.7. Loved the ay the Phils ran tonight.

aka Jayson Werth, but Werth was a superior fielder with great plate discipline. Werth is almost always top 10 in pitches against which makes everyone else around him better.
- jstross

I would take Werth also, if I couldn't have Pence. So now tell me, where are they going to find those 25 HR's and 90 RBI's in a RH bat? And what is it going to cost?

4.7 (awesome) for the Astros in a tiny park, but 1.3(poor) for the Phillies.
- jstross

Pretty much tells me how worthless that stat is. Because Pence was outstanding in the Reg Season for the Phils in 2011.

I would take Werth also, if I couldn't have Pence. So now tell me, where are they going to find those 25 HR's and 90 RBI's in a RH bat? And what is it going to cost?
- MJL

You don't have to replace HRs or RBIs. Phils were dominating last year without Pence. Do you remember who the RF was? I don't, but we won more games with whoever it was than Pence. he's a mental midget.

You don't have to replace HRs or RBIs. Phils were dominating last year without Pence. Do you remember who the RF was? I don't, but we won more games with whoever it was than Pence. he's a mental midget.
- jstross

Werth at 17 Million. Wow, thank God youre not the Phillies GM.

You don't have to replace HRs or RBIs. Phils were dominating last year without Pence. Do you remember who the RF was? I don't, but we won more games with whoever it was than Pence. he's a mental midget.
- jstross

Yes, you do have to replace it. Which was the reason why they dealt for Pence in the first place, last Season. They needed a RH power bat after losing Werth. They now again, need a RH power bat.

I'm going to sign off now. I think it's pretty clear who follows baseball!

I read it. What else are they going to put in the package? Dom Brown? My game is exactly where it needs to be!
- MJL

can't read the future. Different teams have different needs, but a top 100 prospect is a great start.

Werth at 17 Million. Wow, thank God youre not the Phillies GM.
- jstross

I don't know who your replying to. But Werth makes 13.5M this Season.

can't read the future. Different teams have different needs, but a top 100 prospect is a great start.
- jstross

Barely a start. I think you place way too much value on a subjective list.

Have a good night!

Yes, you do have to replace it. Which was the reason why they dealt for Pence in the first place, last Season. They needed a RH power bat after losing Werth. They now again, need a RH power bat.

I'm going to sign off now. I think it's pretty clear who follows baseball!
- MJL

You keep proving my point. Dealing for Pence in the first place is what set this organization into a nose dive! They dealt their best prospects for a luxury tax unfriendly contract when they were the best team in baseball with greater needs. One of the worst decisions in Phillies history. they essentialy went into the playoffs with 23 players since MM sucked and Gloud was a gimp. To make it worse they financially destroyed the teams ability to make moves in the immediate future, basd on ownerships salary parameters. All that to get HRs and RBIs. UGH!

I don't know who your replying to. But Werth makes 13.5M this Season.
- MJL

Whatever. It's $16 million AAV, but i have noticed you selectively change that in your arguments when talking with posters that won't respond. Keep a consistent view point for once.

Whatever. It's $16 million AAV, but i have noticed you selectively change that in your arguments when talking with posters that won't respond. Keep a consistent view point for once.
- jstross

In a little MJL Hell are we?

Whatever. It's $16 million AAV, but i have noticed you selectively change that in your arguments when talking with posters that won't respond. Keep a consistent view point for once.
- jstross

No, I didn't change anything. My view point hasn't changed one bit. And unfortunately, your information above is incorrect again. Werth signed a 7 year deal for 126M. That averages out to a 18M AAV. Which is even more evidence to point out that Pence is worth 14M a year.

He's a bench player at best, on a good team.
- MJL

And a starter on the Phillies.

And a starter on the Phillies.
- bradleyc4

Fans of teams with Jason Bay shouldn't throw rocks.