The 'Hawks got SOD for 1-year on July 1 and now have the freedom to move on this summer. There's no reason why the Flyers needed to trigger 35+ restrictions for a player like Lilja, with so many depth dmen still on the market. There were guys like Hannan and Colin White still unsigned into August that summer.
- Tomahawk

And what did Hannon and White sign for? And were Hannon and White willing to sign on for the role of 7th defenseman where the potential for sitting a lot of game out in the press box is there. There seems to be a lot of factors your not considering. One of which the Flyers weren't interested in SOD.

Should there be a lockout have they discussed what to do with Schenn & Couturier in trying to get the AHL time?
- ob18

Seems like the normal course of action.

I disagree. I think he's been fullfilling his potential to be a full time NHL Defensemen. I think he is still adjusting and was only just starting to do more than "Keep it Simple". He was starting to look around and start trying take control a bit more before he was hurt. I really feel that without his Concussion, we would have had a much clearer vision of what he could bring.
- flyler

What are you disagreeing to?

And what did Hannon and White sign for? And were Hannon and White willing to sign on for the role of 7th defenseman where the potential for sitting a lot of game out in the press box is there. There seems to be a lot of factors your not considering. One of which the Flyers weren't interested in SOD.
- MJL

They both settled for 1-year deals at drastic pay-cuts which presented both value and flexibility to the teams that they signed with.

Lilja, on the other hand, somehow managed to receive better contract terms than he did the previous offseason, which was inexplicable considering that the previous summer he failed to make the Sharks off a PTO and didn't get signed until Oct by the Ducks, subsequently turning in a mediocre season where he barely topped 50 games played.

As for role, I doubt any of them signed with the expectation of sitting in the pressbox.

but seriously i hope at least ONE of them could be an NHL regular at at some point... who gets the shot this year? i don't want a half rookie top 6.
- Don'tForgetTocchet

Meyer, Jones and Picard are/were all NHL-level dmen... just bottom-end/fringe depth guys. I don't think you'll see any of our current group top out at anything above a serviceable 5-6. Gostisbehere is probably the only guy in the entire system who could realistically be expected to crack a top-4 at some point, but even he's pretty far from a lock.

As for who gets the shot, I'm fairly confident that all three will get some regular opportunities, at least before the trade deadline, due to necessity.

Given the cap space this year we can carry 8 dman (or 14 forwards). Would you carry an extra forward or dman?

Given the cap space this year we can carry 8 dman (or 14 forwards). Would you carry an extra forward or dman?
- TheGreat28

given how terrible our d will be with just 1 injury i saw we carry more dmen

They both settled for 1-year deals at drastic pay-cuts which presented both value and flexibility to the teams that they signed with.

Lilja, on the other hand, somehow managed to receive better contract terms than he did the previous offseason, which was inexplicable considering that the previous summer he failed to make the Sharks off a PTO and didn't get signed until Oct by the Ducks, subsequently turning in a mediocre season where he barely topped 50 games played.

As for role, I doubt any of them signed with the expectation of sitting in the pressbox.
- Tomahawk

It's not inexplicable at all. Your competely ignoring how Lilja played and how he fullfiled the role he was signed for. You made up your mind it was a bad signing from day 1, and haven't moved off of that. Even when the evidence is clear that it was a good signing. And there is no doubt that Lilja knew what role he was signing on for.

A little historical perspective on Couturier's rookie season. Several prominent NHLer's had "similar" seasons to Couturier as an 18-19 year old rookie (as of Feb. 1 of that season):

Mark Messier, 19: 33 points in 75 games
Patrick Marleau, 18: 32 points in 74 games
Eric Staal, 19: 31 points in 81 games
Vincent Lecavalier, 18: 28 points in 82 games
Sean Couturier, 19: 27 points in 77 games


But also...

Wayne Gretzky, 19: 137 points in 79 games
Dale Hawerchuk, 18: 103 points in 80 games
Sidney Crosby, 18: 102 points in 81 games
Mario Lemieux, 19: 100 points in 73 games

Era played and role on the team also plays heavily into the context of the numbers.

http://www.hockey-referen...gt&c4val=&order_by=points

Meyer, Jones and Picard are/were all NHL-level dmen... just bottom-end/fringe depth guys. I don't think you'll see any of our current group top out at anything above a serviceable 5-6. Gostisbehere is probably the only guy in the entire system who could realistically be expected to crack a top-4 at some point, but even he's pretty far from a lock.

As for who gets the shot, I'm fairly confident that all three will get some regular opportunities, at least before the trade deadline, due to necessity.
- Tomahawk

you're depressing me.

And, on Lilja... Teams generally carry a 7th defenseman. It's a waste to put a prospect in that role, when they could be playing in the AHL and gaining more experience (that's were Gust is now). It's better to sign an experienced player with a low salary (Lilja salary is only $737K). He doesn't need the experience, and should be able to step in and play the odd game or two.
- leon neon

Agreed, and by the end we were glad we had him with all the injuries we had throughout the playoff's. Lilja is a low paid servicable 7th Veteran D man. That's what you really want.

It's not inexplicable at all. Your competely ignoring how Lilja played and how he fullfiled the role he was signed for. You made up your mind it was a bad signing from day 1, and haven't moved off of that. Even when the evidence is clear that it was a good signing. And there is no doubt that Lilja knew what role he was signing on for.
- MJL

The fact that he's currently a lock to make the team next season based purely on contract considerations and not merit is evidence enough that the 2nd-year was a mistake on the Flyers part. Nobody is arguing that Lilja failed to meet the limited expectations set upon him prior to this past season, so there's no reason to erect a straw man around that point. If he were on a one-year deal, there would be nothing to complain about. Problem is, they forked over a 2nd-year for no apparent reason other than to get him signed, when patience would have not only afforded them a better player, but better value for dollar and more roster flexibility. And this summer, we're possibly talking about losing MAB in a numbers crunch, or being up against the contract limit again, all because Lilja's 35+ is an immovable object.

A little historical perspective on Couturier's rookie season. Several prominent NHLer's had "similar" seasons to Couturier as an 18-19 year old rookie (as of Feb. 1 of that season):

Mark Messier, 19: 33 points in 75 games
Patrick Marleau, 18: 32 points in 74 games
Eric Staal, 19: 31 points in 81 games
Vincent Lecavalier, 18: 28 points in 82 games
Sean Couturier, 19: 27 points in 77 games


But also...

Wayne Gretzky, 19: 137 points in 79 games
Dale Hawerchuk, 18: 103 points in 80 games
Sidney Crosby, 18: 102 points in 81 games
Mario Lemieux, 19: 100 points in 73 games

Era played and role on the team also plays heavily into the context of the numbers.

http://www.hockey-referen...gt&c4val=&order_by=points
- bradleyc4

Offense, some of those guys play on the top line as a rookie. Couturier bounced between 3rd and 4th lines. And, offense is one thing... But, who on this list is at the same level of defensive play as Couturier at the same age? (Not that +/- is an exact representation of defensive play... Lemiuex with 100pts was a -35 -ouch)

The "insiders" have Simmonds and a second going for Kaberle.

The "insiders" have Simmonds and a second going for Kaberle.
- KGBflyers10

That would be a sweet trade for the Pens.

The "insiders" have Simmonds and a second going for Kaberle.
- KGBflyers10

I googled Simmonds and Kaberle... Apparently, they wanted Simmonds for a while...

2010
http://hockeyindependent.com/blog/bdgallof/18891/

Meyer, Jones and Picard are/were all NHL-level dmen... just bottom-end/fringe depth guys. I don't think you'll see any of our current group top out at anything above a serviceable 5-6. Gostisbehere is probably the only guy in the entire system who could realistically be expected to crack a top-4 at some point, but even he's pretty far from a lock.

As for who gets the shot, I'm fairly confident that all three will get some regular opportunities, at least before the trade deadline, due to necessity.
- Tomahawk

For the most part I agree with you. One of Manning, Gusty or MAB could be a late bloomer and end up a 3/4, but for the most part these guys are much more likely to be 5/6/7. MAB did a good job, but considering his play in AHL it is as likely that he regresses in sophomore year as it is he progresses. I'm ok with seeing where these guys are vs. a kneejerk trade, but my expectations are realistic.

This is the biggest reason I think the Flyers draft strategy this year was suspect. Laughton may turn out to be Madden or maybe even Richards, but I think they need some volume of higher ceiling prospects like Maata and Thrower.

I googled Simmonds and Kaberle... Apparently, they wanted Simmonds for a while...

2010
http://hockeyindependent.com/blog/bdgallof/18891/
- leon neon

That is the leafs wanted him...

Meyer, Jones and Picard are/were all NHL-level dmen... just bottom-end/fringe depth guys. I don't think you'll see any of our current group top out at anything above a serviceable 5-6. Gostisbehere is probably the only guy in the entire system who could realistically be expected to crack a top-4 at some point, but even he's pretty far from a lock.

As for who gets the shot, I'm fairly confident that all three will get some regular opportunities, at least before the trade deadline, due to necessity.
- Tomahawk

They have never replaced the shot that Pronger brought from the blue line.

They will be OK in their own end with probably some difficulty clearing out pucks when they play strong forechecking teams.

Without Pronger and even Mez who has the big shot from the blue line this year?
Devils collapsed on the forwards and killed their PP this spring.

I really hope Coburn is working on getting his shot on net.

I could see the PP using 4 forwards on both units.

They have never replaced the shot that Pronger brought from the blue line.

They will be OK in their own end with probably some difficulty clearing out pucks when they play strong forechecking teams.

Without Pronger and even Mez who has the big shot from the blue line this year?
Devils collapsed on the forwards and killed their PP this spring.

I really hope Coburn is working on getting his shot on net.

I could see the PP using 4 forwards on both units.
- Marc D

who would be the remaining defenseman? Timmo and Coburn on the two units? I heard Schenn has a hard shot (but not accurate).

The "insiders" have Simmonds and a second going for Kaberle.
- KGBflyers10

I've seen the rumor the other way... Kaberle and a second for Simmonds

who would be the remaining defenseman? Timmo and Coburn on the two units? I heard Schenn has a hard shot (but not accurate).
- leon neon

#1 unit likely to be:
Harts/G/Simmonds
Kimmo/Czechie

#2 ??? I have no clue ???
Couts/Briere/Schenn
Coburn/Read

#1 unit likely to be:
Harts/G/Simmonds
Kimmo/Czechie

#2 ??? I have no clue ???
Couts/Briere/Schenn
Coburn/Read
- Marc D

I actually like both of those...

#1 unit likely to be:
Harts/G/Simmonds
Kimmo/Czechie

#2 ??? I have no clue ???
Couts/Briere/Schenn
Coburn/Read
- Marc D

No need to worry about it b/c the season won't start on time anyways. I dont see hockey until December at best.

The "insiders" have Simmonds and a second going for Kaberle.
- KGBflyers10

I'd do this if we could somehow pass Shelley off as Simmonds. Think anyone would notice?