The attempt at Weber shows this franchise is in desperate need for a first pairing D-man. After this season, Timonen is gone, and there really is no semblance of anyone that resembles a top pairing guy. Coburn, Meszaros, and hopefully Schenn can all be capable of second pairing d-men. It's not imperative to have a stud on the backend as the Devils showed this year, but their commitment to team defense is superior to the Flyers. Winning a Cup without that monster on the backend doesn't happen often.
- PLindbergh31

As you say, it is usually the teams that have that stud that get to the final or win it. It makes your chances truly that much better.

It gets scary once Kimmo is gone. They will need to find a replacement then, and it wont be possible through FA.

I'd simply make that move now, and get use out of Kimmo's last year. I've seen proposals to simply bring back Kimmo for one more year if he would be willing and roll out again. Personally I dont like that.

Just a little thought on the whole team defense thing. I think as a team you have to play to your strengths. For the Flyers with the current men on the team that is the offense. Not to say they shouldnt work on improving the defensive play, but I dont want to see them turn defensive. With the guys they have on D that is playing with fire imo.

I think anything will depend on Bryzgalov in the end.

Last 20 years Cup Winners

Detroit 4- Lidstrom
Devils 3- Stevens, Neidermayer
Rags 1- Leech
Pens 3- Letang, Coffey (Still pretty good)
Blackhawks- Keith, Seabrooke
Kings- Doughty
Bruins - Chara
Ducks - Pronger
Av's - Borque

This list pretty much speaks for itself.

Last 20 years Cup Winners

Detroit 4- Lidstrom
Devils 3- Stevens, Neidermayer
Rags 1- Leech
Pens 3- Letang, Coffey (Still pretty good)
Blackhawks- Keith, Seabrooke
Kings- Doughty
Bruins - Chara
Ducks - Pronger
Av's - Borque

This list pretty much speaks for itself.
- PLindbergh31

Agree. It would be hard to give up Schenn/Cooties. One or both of them. Yet those players are easier to find than elite d-men. There is a reason why the cost is so high. The Flyers will have to pay now, or next season imo. I would do it now.

And Canada has again erased a 2 goal deficit this one from Charles Hudon a Montreal draft pick from this past draft.

As you say, it is usually the teams that have that stud that get to the final or win it. It makes your chances truly that much better.

It gets scary once Kimmo is gone. They will need to find a replacement then, and it wont be possible through FA.

I'd simply make that move now, and get use out of Kimmo's last year. I've seen proposals to simply bring back Kimmo for one more year if he would be willing and roll out again. Personally I dont like that.

Just a little thought on the whole team defense thing. I think as a team you have to play to your strengths. For the Flyers with the current men on the team that is the offense. Not to say they shouldnt work on improving the defensive play, but I dont want to see them turn defensive. With the guys they have on D that is playing with fire imo.

I think anything will depend on Bryzgalov in the end.
- flyer_nutter

Yep. Absolutely. The goaltending is always paramount. Everyone expecting Bryzgalov to bounce back simply because it's his second year could be in for a surprise. I have serious concerns about the play in front of him. This could be a very poor defensive team unfortunately.

As you say, it is usually the teams that have that stud that get to the final or win it. It makes your chances truly that much better.

It gets scary once Kimmo is gone. They will need to find a replacement then, and it wont be possible through FA.

I'd simply make that move now, and get use out of Kimmo's last year. I've seen proposals to simply bring back Kimmo for one more year if he would be willing and roll out again. Personally I dont like that.

Just a little thought on the whole team defense thing. I think as a team you have to play to your strengths. For the Flyers with the current men on the team that is the offense. Not to say they shouldnt work on improving the defensive play, but I dont want to see them turn defensive. With the guys they have on D that is playing with fire imo.

I think anything will depend on Bryzgalov in the end.
- flyer_nutter

Actually the defenseman they have are better suited for a defensive first system. You can make the argument that the defense, with the addition of Luke Schenn, and the injuries to Meszaros, and loss of Carle. That the defense lacks some foot speed and puck skills to play the style that Laviolette favors. Playing a slightly different forecheck that puts the defense in a better position to defend against counter attacks, doesn't mean that you can't be a top offensive team. I'd like to see this team play more of a 1-2 forecheck at times. Especially in certain situations.
If Timonen is healthy and still productive. I see nothing wrong with bringing him back at a reduced rate.
And you can't make a move just because you want to. It's takes two to tango and team to deal with. That is willing to trade a top defender for another need.

Agree. It would be hard to give up Schenn/Cooties. One or both of them. Yet those players are easier to find than elite d-men. There is a reason why the cost is so high. The Flyers will have to pay now, or next season imo. I would do it now.
- flyer_nutter

The best way to go in obtaining a d-man is via free agency imo. You do not have to subtract from the young nucleus that way. With Timonen's contract gone after this year, Flyers should be the # 1 suitors for the top UFA D-men on the market.

Yep. Absolutely. The goaltending is always paramount. Everyone expecting Bryzgalov to bounce back simply because it's his second year could be in for a surprise. I have serious concerns about the play in front of him. This could be a very poor defensive team unfortunately.
- PLindbergh31

Or it could be a very good defensive team, and Bryzgalov could have a great year.

Yep. Absolutely. The goaltending is always paramount. Everyone expecting Bryzgalov to bounce back simply because it's his second year could be in for a surprise. I have serious concerns about the play in front of him. This could be a very poor defensive team unfortunately.
- PLindbergh31

I think he will be better, especially to start.

My concern is if things snowball for him. I dont really want to get into Bryzgalov, I think he will do better, and dont want to assume how he will play before he hits the ice. I have seen him steal countless games in Phoenix so I can he has the ability. Although, the pressure will be even more intense this season and I hope he can handle it.

I think he will be better, especially to start.

My concern is if things snowball for him. I dont really want to get into Bryzgalov, I think he will do better, and dont want to assume how he will play before he hits the ice. I have seen him steal countless games in Phoenix so I can he has the ability. Although, the pressure will be even more intense this season and I hope he can handle it.
- flyer_nutter

Fair points. He's shown in his career he can play very well. Heck he played extremely well at times last year, just was very inconsistent.

I'm actually more concerned about the play in front of him, than Bryzgalov himself. The two go hand and hand though. If he's left to hang out to dry it can play havoc with his confidence etc...

I think he will be better, especially to start.

My concern is if things snowball for him. I dont really want to get into Bryzgalov, I think he will do better, and dont want to assume how he will play before he hits the ice. I have seen him steal countless games in Phoenix so I can he has the ability. Although, the pressure will be even more intense this season and I hope he can handle it.
- flyer_nutter

So many factors involved.

I was listening to Cataldi this morning (I know I know). His premise was this: Because Iguodala is gone, he was coming up with a list of players to hate. Bryzgalov was 4th on his list and the first one named. He was basically starting a hate Bryzgalov movement sponsored by WIP. No wonder the Flyers left WIP for 97.5 this upcoming season.

I also had a real problem with Jonesy just basically going along with it.

Cataldi is everything wrong with Philadelphia sports. Unfortunately, millions of morons listen to him on a daily basis and parrot his opinions like the brain dead sheep they are.

The best way to go in obtaining a d-man is via free agency imo. You do not have to subtract from the young nucleus that way. With Timonen's contract gone after this year, Flyers should be the # 1 suitors for the top UFA D-men on the market.
- PLindbergh31

The top UFA d-men of 2013 are Kimmo, Visnovsky, Streit, Edler, Douglas Murray, Scuderi. I dont really like that list. Streit is getting old and I dont see Vanouver letting Edler go.

RFA's include Bogosian ( I am not high on), OEL, Pietrangelo, Rundblad, Fowler, Shattenkirk, McDonagh, Alzner, Hamonic, Hickey and Voynov.

For 2014 the UFA's are Boyle, J-Bow, Phaneuf, Orpik, Meszaros, Hjalmarsson, Letang, Girardi, Robidas and Kaberle.

You have promising guys in the RFA class that could become elite but you pretty much know what you are getting with the UFA class. None fo those being really elite d-men imo. Or to be more specific I dont think they have a shot at guys like Girardi, McDonagh, Pietrangelo or Letang.

The Flyers will have to trade.

So many factors involved.

I was listening to Cataldi this morning (I know I know). His premise was this: Because Iguodala is gone, he was coming up with a list of players to hate. Bryzgalov was 4th on his list and the first one named. He was basically starting a hate Bryzgalov movement sponsored by WIP. No wonder the Flyers left WIP for 97.5 this upcoming season.

I also had a real problem with Jonesy just basically going along with it.

Cataldi is everything wrong with Philadelphia sports. Unfortunately, millions of morons listen to him on a daily basis and parrot his opinions like the brain dead sheep they are.
- MBFlyerfan

I am never one to shy away from voicing my displeasure with a player or moves made by management. However I think the media has crossed the line the last few years. With Richards, Dry Island, Lava, and Bryzgalov. I would be limiting their access to the players if I am the Flyers. There is reporting, and there is trying to blow little things up to make it an interesting story to gain more readers.

As for Cataldi, I live in the great white north. My thoughts come from my own insanity.

The top UFA d-men of 2013 are Kimmo, Visnovsky, Streit, Edler, Douglas Murray, Scuderi. I dont really like that list. Streit is getting old and I dont see Vanouver letting Edler go.

RFA's include Bogosian ( I am not high on), OEL, Pietrangelo, Rundblad, Fowler, Shattenkirk, McDonagh, Alzner, Hamonic, Hickey and Voynov.

For 2014 the UFA's are Boyle, J-Bow, Phaneuf, Orpik, Meszaros, Hjalmarsson, Letang, Girardi, Robidas and Kaberle.

You have promising guys in the RFA class that could become elite but you pretty much know what you are getting with the UFA class. None fo those being really elite d-men imo. Or to be more specific I dont think they have a shot at guys like Girardi, McDonagh, Pietrangelo or Letang.

The Flyers will have to trade.
- flyer_nutter

Yikes. That isn't an appetizing list of UFA's in 2013. Good lord. After the Weber debacle I doubt we will see offer sheets being extended to RFA's anytime soon.

The 2014 list has some really good players. Would love the Flyers to be able to get their hands on Girardi or Letang.

Coburn has already shown he can be a top pair defenseman as a compliment to a #1. Luke Schenn has the potential to be a #2 defenseman. Meszaros probably has more raw talent and skill then both of them. None of them are #1's in the future. But all 3 could be compliments to a true #1.
- MJL

Luke Schenn isn't a future #1? I'd like to watch him in 82 games of an orange-and-white jersey before I'd make a comment like that.

How many #1 defenseman are there in the NHL, by the way? 30? More? Less?

Luke Schenn isn't a future #1? I'd like to watch him in 82 games of an orange-and-white jersey before I'd make a comment like that.

How many #1 defenseman are there in the NHL, by the way? 30? More? Less?
- steelydan

I don't see Luke Schenn as ever being a PP QB and producing 40+ points. And a player has to be that in order to be considered a true #1 in my view. I think he can be a very solid physical defensive defenseman that can be a compliment to a true # 1 on a top pairing. That would be the high end of his potential in my opinion.

As far as the latter, it depends on what your definition of a #1 is.

Yikes. That isn't an appetizing list of UFA's in 2013. Good lord. After the Weber debacle I doubt we will see offer sheets being extended to RFA's anytime soon.

The 2014 list has some really good players. Would love the Flyers to be able to get their hands on Girardi or Letang.
- PLindbergh31

I'd love to as well.

They are however two years away at best to being able to get them. I also dont like the chances of those two choosing Philly over their respective teams. Nor do I see NY or Pittsburgh letting either one go.

Anyways this is all far in the future. The point I am trying to show is that I believe the Flyers will be forced to trade for elite talent on D. I rather they do it now and get one more solid year out of Kimmo.

I am a very big Meszaros fan and thought he would rebound this season. Even when he comes back, it will be a long time since he has played for a longer period of time. I expect rust.

I was in the group that would have been willing to deal one of Schenn/Cooties or even both if need be to get Weber. A minority, absolutely. However it must have become clear at some point Nashville would match unless given what they want. I would have given up those two if needed. As promising as the Flyers youth, and those two players are, it should be more evident than ever how hard it is to find a #1 d-man. It is easier to find players like Schenn or Cooties. In the end its hindsight, so no worries.

I just hope the Flyers learned from that lesson. If they want a star d-man, even a guy like Bogosian, they will have to pay up, and probably overpay. Or they can run with a average group season to season and hope for the best, something I dont agree with.

This season I dont expect much. I think thats being realistic. They do have a shot, you never know what young players can do. However I, even at this time, would really be trying to upgrade that back end. With young promising stars. Who with time, will simply cost more. The Flyers should also remember that the playoffs come down to the wire. Waiting to upgrade till later, could be too late. 4 points can be the difference in playing for the cup or scratching your ass at home.

I like that they kept Voracek, he has the ability and more importantly size the top 9 needs. If its a learning year so be it, I will enjoy the ride. However everyone always talks about how young teams are. As young as the youth up front is, it is also cheap. FOR NOW. The Flyers should take advantage not wait for that magical d-man to come from the draft.

I am not Holmgren, but I would be making a trade for a young promising d-man before the season starts.
- flyer_nutter

i felt this way a year ago

I'd love to as well.

They are however two years away at best to being able to get them. I also dont like the chances of those two choosing Philly over their respective teams. Nor do I see NY or Pittsburgh letting either one go.
- flyer_nutter

I would agree. Hard to see either of those players leaving for a hated Division rival. Parise didn't do it, and he was offered a substantial more money to do so.

Maybe being that the Penguins will have so much money tied up in Crosby and Malkin, perhaps they have trouble fitting Letang under the Cap, but I'm sure Shero will find a way.

I would agree. Hard to see either of those players leaving for a hated Division rival. Parise didn't do it, and he was offered a substantial more money to do so.

Maybe being that the Penguins will have so much money tied up in Crosby and Malkin, perhaps they have trouble fitting Letang under the Cap, but I'm sure Shero will find a way.
- PLindbergh31

Talbot didn't have a problem with it.

And Russia goes back on top with a PP goal 5 - 4 early 3rd

I would agree. Hard to see either of those players leaving for a hated Division rival. Parise didn't do it, and he was offered a substantial more money to do so.

Maybe being that the Penguins will have so much money tied up in Crosby and Malkin, perhaps they have trouble fitting Letang under the Cap, but I'm sure Shero will find a way.
- PLindbergh31

Hey whats up mofo! I agree with the number one Dman thing. I hope that L. Schenn can hopefully break out and really become a force this year. I applaud Holmgren, just for the fact that he didnt trade young talent. I guess we will see what happens with the rest of this year. I just hope they can sign Carl C. and move on. Hopefully Coburn and Grossmann really show that they are a solid number one D pairing. This should be interesting feerr surree

I would agree. Hard to see either of those players leaving for a hated Division rival. Parise didn't do it, and he was offered a substantial more money to do so.

Maybe being that the Penguins will have so much money tied up in Crosby and Malkin, perhaps they have trouble fitting Letang under the Cap, but I'm sure Shero will find a way.
- PLindbergh31

Agree for sure.

I still see the Flyers a good destination for free agents but there are limits to that. Just for fun, what would your move be if you are Holmgren?

Agree for sure.

I still see the Flyers a good destination for free agents but there are limits to that. Just for fun, what would your move be if you are Holmgren?
- flyer_nutter

I think a good move would be to have a Coke and a smile.. lol Do you think any moves could be made tho at this juncture? The only real option that could pay dividends is Carl C. but thats just me. Didnt mean to but in on your post but thought I would respond.. yah yah

Hey whats up mofo! I agree with the number one Dman thing. I hope that L. Schenn can hopefully break out and really become a force this year. I applaud Holmgren, just for the fact that he didnt trade young talent. I guess we will see what happens with the rest of this year. I just hope they can sign Carl C. and move on. Hopefully Coburn and Grossmann really show that they are a solid number one D pairing. This should be interesting feerr surree
- bigmookalookie

Mookie! What's up man? Carlo C is a pretty good player, but he's constantly injured. Can you see him coming to Philly of all places and all of a sudden being healthy? I sure can't.