The NHL is taking a hardline, monolithic stance with the expressed purpose of shaking the players' resolve by making Sept 15 loom large on the calendar.

The PA countered with finesse by selectively disclosing the parts of their proposal that seem pragmatic and reasonable, thereby making a grab for the favor of the media and fans.

As you said, there hasn't even been a starting point for negotiation established yet, so aside from basic fact-finding and briefing the constituencies, it's been nothing but strategic posturing up until now.
- Tomahawk

I agree totally that the League is going to try and bully the players and use the threat of a lockout to do so. But they aren't dealing with Goodenow here. Fehr is not going to be pushed around here. I think the players are united. They are willing to make concessions and have already offered to do so. The League has to do the same.

I would not give up on the Schenn Bros. I think Luke Schenn is going to be the forgotten element in the Argument against the Flyers Defense this summer. (and with the lockout looming that could be a long summer) This is a guy who is one of the highest rated young shutdown Defenders in the league. He's still developing and like Giroux, really needs to be given pressure and responsibility to grow further at this point in his development. It think with Toronto's Defensive depth he was stuck behind Phaneuf & Co. I think with Philly he's really going to get a lot more opportunity & responsibility. I would not be surprised to see him on the PP and have Philly's coaching working with him to develop his offensive game more. As much as we have debated that Bourdon & Gus do not have a high ceiling on their projected game, Luke Schenn does have top line potential.

Edit:Oh and I diddn't realize he has a right handed shot. Doesn't he know all Philly D are southpaws?
- flyler

I think the Flyers are going to have Luke Schenn concentrate on his positioning, and footwork. As well as his anticipation and reading of plays defensively. I don't see them placing him on the PP. I could be wrong. But I think he will see time on the PK. I don't see them overburdoning a young player by placing PP responsibilities on him, as well. But we'll see

I think the Flyers are going to have Luke Schenn concentrate on his positioning, and footwork. As well as his anticipation and reading of plays defensively. I don't see them placing him on the PP. I could be wrong. But I think he will see time on the PK. I don't see them overburdoning a young player by placing PP responsibilities on him, as well. But we'll see
- MJL

Maybe. I think that was their original plan. However as Meszaros going down has opened up opportunity on the 3rd pairing for Bourdon & Gus, it has also opened up opportunity on the top line as well. While Coburn is the prime candidate for taking over some of those minutes, I think the coaches will see it as an opportunity to lay some burden on Luke Schenn as well, at least to see how he takes it.

Agreed i want to see what this kid has. Flyers are great at turning around other teams defensive prospects.
- Philly1980

Gotta great feeling about Schenn. Was ticked when JVR got hurt last year and squashed the trade rumors of the eventual trade. I expect his career to turn for the better similar to Cobourns.

Maybe. I think that was their original plan. However as Meszaros going down has opened up opportunity on the 3rd pairing for Bourdon & Gus, it has also opened up opportunity on the top line as well. While Coburn is the prime candidate for taking over some of those minutes, I think the coaches will see it as an opportunity to lay some burden on Luke Schenn as well, at least to see how he takes it.
- flyler

That wouldn't be a terrible 3rd pair for future. Gus can move the puck and mab can be more a Banger. Good balance

I think there should be a gag order on all parties involved in the negotiations. The public has no role in the matter and the crafting of public messages is just a waste of time and a distraction.

Step one: Negotiate a new CBA
Step two: Announce that there is a new CBA
Step three: Game on!

Anything else is nonsense and noise.

I like the Simmonds contract and Bill's analysis of it.

That wouldn't be a terrible 3rd pair for future. Gus can move the puck and mab can be more a Banger. Good balance
- Deasr1

Oh I totally agree, if they both develop and can both settle in, that could be very strong yet low cost Third pairing. But maybe in a year or so. I'm hoping next year they split the expienced D with the Rookies. Like

Kimmo/Schenn
Grossman/ Gervais
Coburn/ MAB or Gus.

The only combo I'd avoid is Grossman with Schenn or MAB. It creates a pairing without a lot of speed, which is essential to Lavy's system.

I think there should be a gag order on all parties involved in the negotiations. The public has no role in the matter and the crafting of public messages is just a waste of time and a distraction.

Step one: Negotiate a new CBA
Step two: Announce that there is a new CBA
Step three: Game on!

Anything else is nonsense and noise.
- Scoob

Unfortunately Negotiation is just that. Nonsense and noise. There is too much money involved to avoid it. I urge people to not let it replace Hockey as their new sport for the summer (& possibly fall). I just don't think it will be as satisfying.

BTW I really like "Nonsense and Noise". Good phrase. Unfortunate truth.

Oh I totally agree, if they both develop and can both settle in, that could be very strong yet low cost Third pairing. But maybe in a year or so. I'm hoping next year they split the expienced D with the Rookies. Like

Kimmo/Schenn
Grossman/ Gervais
Coburn/ MAB or Gus.

The only combo I'd avoid is Grossman with Schenn or MAB. It creates a pairing without a lot of speed, which is essential to Lavy's system.
- flyler

I may be in the minority but I would make Timonen the 3rd D man and not the #1.

Coburn would be my #1

Coburn/Calio
Timonen/Grossman
Schenn/Gervias

If no signing:

Coburn/Grossman
Timonen/Schenn
Gervia/Gus/MAB (scary!)

Personally speaking, I detest politics from all sides. I don't put much stock in rhetoric. Beyond that, I consider much of the negotiation process to involve time wasted on posturing when it could have been spent accomplishing the same final result a lot sooner.

I'm not on the NHL's side. I'm not on the NHLPA's side. I just want to see a 2012-13 NHL hockey season that is not significantly delayed at the start.

A-(frank)ing-men

A-(frank)ing-men
- flyerscup2011

I am on no ones side, because no one is on my side.

..

I may be in the minority but I would make Timonen the 3rd D man and not the #1.

Coburn would be my #1

Coburn/Calio
Timonen/Grossman
Schenn/Gervias

If no signing:

Coburn/Grossman
Timonen/Schenn
Gervia/Gus/MAB (scary!)
- coffee junkie

Interesting, I agree that Coburn is becoming that #1 guy as everyone is picking up their game and shouldering more responsibility I think this is his chance to show how much he has grown. I just think while MAB & Gus could be good and excel & learn with an experienced partner, putting them together too early would be bad for their development. I think Coburn & MAB could be a very stable pairing, grow MAB's game and set up the following year for a solid Gus/ MAB third pairing.

Edit: Even a Gervais /MAB or Gus line would be too weak to stand and just force everyone else to play more minutes. While sprinkling the rookies with Vets balances the Ice time and could help prevent Kimmo from getting overworked.

..
- aightwebang17

Interesting, I agree that Coburn is becoming that #1 guy as everyone is picking up their game and shouldering more responsibility I think this is his chance to show how much he has grown. I just think while MAB & Gus could be good and excel & learn with an experienced partner, putting them together too early would be bad for their development. I think Coburn & MAB could be a very stable pairing, grow MAB's game and set up the following year for a solid Gus/ MAB third pairing.

Edit: Even a Gervais /MAB or Gus line would be too weak to stand and just force everyone else to play more minutes. While sprinkling the rookies with Vets balances the Ice time and could help prevent Kimmo from getting overworked.
- flyler

I hear that, I would just hate to "waste" Coburn as a #5 D man. This team just has too many #5,#6,#7 D man. I guess overall I am just not comfortable with the D in general on this team as it stands. Hope I'm wrong.

Edit what about:

Coburn/ Schenn
Timonen/Gervais
Grossman/ MAB/ GUS

I still feel uneasy.

Interesting, I agree that Coburn is becoming that #1 guy as everyone is picking up their game and shouldering more responsibility I think this is his chance to show how much he has grown. I just think while MAB & Gus could be good and excel & learn with an experienced partner, putting them together too early would be bad for their development. I think Coburn & MAB could be a very stable pairing, grow MAB's game and set up the following year for a solid Gus/ MAB third pairing.

Edit: Even a Gervais /MAB or Gus line would be too weak to stand and just force everyone else to play more minutes. While sprinkling the rookies with Vets balances the Ice time and could help prevent Kimmo from getting overworked.
- flyler

You need to have a pairing that is going to be your main pair to go up against the top line of the opposition. Having Bourdon with Coburn prevents you from using Coburn for that role, in my opinion.

You need to have a pairing that is going to be your main pair to go up against the top line of the opposition. Having Bourdon with Coburn prevents you from using Coburn for that role, in my opinion.
- MJL

Thank you for saying what I was thinking so eloquently.

You need to have a pairing that is going to be your main pair to go up against the top line of the opposition. Having Bourdon with Coburn prevents you from using Coburn for that role, in my opinion.
- MJL

I keep Coburn with Grossmann as the main shutdown pair.

I pair Timonen with Schenn, this takes some of the physical toll off of Timonen and some of the pressure off Schenn from a positional aspect.

Then I live with whatever third pair I can cobble together every night.

I keep Coburn with Grossmann as the main shutdown pair.

I pair Timonen with Schenn, this takes some of the physical toll off of Timonen and some of the pressure off Schenn from a positional aspect.

Then I live with whatever third pair I can cobble together every night.
- MBFlyerfan

Thats how I seez it too.

- feelingkettle

Agreed i want to see what this kid has. Flyers are great at turning around other teams defensive prospects.
- Philly1980

Agree with everything the other guy said and this. Can't wait.

- Duane B

- Duane B

I think the Flyers are going to have Luke Schenn concentrate on his positioning, and footwork. As well as his anticipation and reading of plays defensively. I don't see them placing him on the PP. I could be wrong. But I think he will see time on the PK. I don't see them overburdoning a young player by placing PP responsibilities on him, as well. But we'll see
- MJL

I wouldn't be surprised to see them try him on the 2nd unit strictly because he's a righty and he's got a cannon.

But as you said, I dont think that'll be one of their main objectives. I see them focusing on the intangibles you listed above first and foremost. However, this could be something they experiment with at one point in the season for sure.