My note to them last night included my intention to contact the PA Atty General's consumer protection office if they introduced the replacement player idea. Consumer fraud would be my contention. I do wonder if that's why I had a phone call at 10:22 this morning. I'm pretty sure I emailed them at about 2:30 this morning.
- bodiva88

That's excellent work. I read somewhere last night that 2 Senator's from NJ wrote letters to the League urging them to get a deal done, as it is affecting some of their consitutents. I have no idea of the legal issues regarding this. But a lot of City and Local Governments contribute money to some of these NHL teams to promote commerce and help creat jobs. Well with a lockout, they aren't getting what they paid for. And it's taxpayer money. I'd like to see something done from that angle if it is at all feasible.

Unfortunately, I see it as business. The fans are just the collateral damage. If I had to choose sides, I'd be on the side of the players. The only problem I really have with the NHLPA is not being willing to start negotiating sooner.
- MJL

It's business, certainly, but I'm still utterly frustrated with the NHL's inability to get labor disputes resolved timely. NHL hockey is three for three on potential lockouts going back to 1994. Fehr has been in charge of the NHLPA for two years, correct? There's been plenty of time him to get familiar with his job and the two sides to start talking. There was plenty of time this summer to start talking. It didn't happen, the two sides planned on putting regular season hockey in jeopardy.

(rant time, to clarify this post isn't an angry letter at you)

I understand they did this because long term gains via negotiations would outweigh short term revenues, but I still feel it hurts the brand. The fans came back last time, and the league grew to a bit over $3 billion. One can argue we'll all be back, or at least enough of us that it won't matter, and you'll probably be right. I can't help but look at the paradigm of successful professional sports, the NFL.

The NFL and NFLPA did their sparring, the necessary parties got involved, and they had a CBA in place with the time needed to get the ball rolling. The NHL and NHLPA, however, couldn't even be bothered to make offers until a lockout was less than a month away. Where the NFL maintained the hype of the season opening, hockey fans and casual fans have pretty much no idea what the deal is.

Now, it's not an even or entirely fair comparison. The two leagues have different issues to negotiate, and I don't have all the details (nor does anybody, I suppose). It's not exactly an even comparison to to judge hockey against football and its mass appeal. But I think it's fair to say football knows the value of maintaining the excitement its product has, and that's a big part of the mass appeal. It's a fixture in popular culture, and even through labor disputes, a year without a CBA, and a dispute with the referees (with embarrassing and hilarious results), football refused to give up its iron grip on the weekend.

So I'm going to backtrack and say I don't think it's assured everybody will be back when this is all done. I think a lot of people will be frustrated enough to reconsider. I don't think it's assured the league will grow the same way it did since the last lockout. These lockouts leave a lot of people with a firm opinion that the NHL is second rate among professional sports leagues, and right now I'm not inclined to argue with them.

(This rant, as they often do, lost focus but I think I got my point across)

That seems like a designed Media leak to exert pressure to me. I'll beleive it when it happens. I posted earlier about who they would get as far as the quality of players for replacement players.
- MJL

It's silly if it's a calculated leak, the idea is laughable. Bettman ought come out and confirm there will be no replacement players, as Goodell did within a month of labor disputes intensifying last year. I was barely born when it happened, but any football fan who saw the replacement NFL players in 1987 doesn't want to talk about it.

It's silly if it's a calculated leak, the idea is laughable. Bettman ought come out and confirm there will be no replacement players, as Goodell did within a month of labor disputes intensifying last year. I was barely born when it happened, but any football fan who saw the replacement NFL players in 1987 doesn't want to talk about it.
- BulliesPhan87

Why would I pay money to see a bunch of beer league level players in NHL jerseys when I could see an infinitely better brand of hockey from the AHL or ECHL?

Why would I pay money to see a bunch of beer league level players in NHL jerseys when I could see an infinitely better brand of hockey from the AHL or ECHL?
- MBFlyerfan

Exactly. It's harmful to the brand. There's an expectation of what one should see in these NHL sweaters, when fans see that this standard can be lowered when needed it's jarring.

On a different note, I was reading about the NHLPA's 4-on-4 Challenge back in the '94 lockout. I know Max Talbot and friends were talking about exhibition games, but has the NHLPA considered trying this again, I wonder?

It's business, certainly, but I'm still utterly frustrated with the NHL's inability to get labor disputes resolved timely. NHL hockey is three for three on potential lockouts going back to 1994. Fehr has been in charge of the NHLPA for two years, correct? There's been plenty of time him to get familiar with his job and the two sides to start talking. There was plenty of time this summer to start talking. It didn't happen, the two sides planned on putting regular season hockey in jeopardy.

(rant time, to clarify this post isn't an angry letter at you)

I understand they did this because long term gains via negotiations would outweigh short term revenues, but I still feel it hurts the brand. The fans came back last time, and the league grew to a bit over $3 billion. One can argue we'll all be back, or at least enough of us that it won't matter, and you'll probably be right. I can't help but look at the paradigm of successful professional sports, the NFL.

The NFL and NFLPA did their sparring, the necessary parties got involved, and they had a CBA in place with the time needed to get the ball rolling. The NHL and NHLPA, however, couldn't even be bothered to make offers until a lockout was less than a month away. Where the NFL maintained the hype of the season opening, hockey fans and casual fans have pretty much no idea what the deal is.

Now, it's not an even or entirely fair comparison. The two leagues have different issues to negotiate, and I don't have all the details (nor does anybody, I suppose). It's not exactly an even comparison to to judge hockey against football and its mass appeal. But I think it's fair to say football knows the value of maintaining the excitement its product has, and that's a big part of the mass appeal. It's a fixture in popular culture, and even through labor disputes, a year without a CBA, and a dispute with the referees (with embarrassing and hilarious results), football refused to give up its iron grip on the weekend.

So I'm going to backtrack and say I don't think it's assured everybody will be back when this is all done. I think a lot of people will be frustrated enough to reconsider. I don't think it's assured the league will grow the same way it did since the last lockout. These lockouts leave a lot of people with a firm opinion that the NHL is second rate among professional sports leagues, and right now I'm not inclined to argue with them.

(This rant, as they often do, lost focus but I think I got my point across)
- BulliesPhan87

I hear the frustration and passion coming from this loud and clear. I really think one of the biggest problems is that neither the League or the players, fear losing the fans. And I wouldn't either if I was in their position. I beleive they will lose very little of the fanbase from this. Both sides are dug in the sand and ready to hold their ground.

Exactly. It's harmful to the brand. There's an expectation of what one should see in these NHL sweaters, when fans see that this standard can be lowered when needed it's jarring.

On a different note, I was reading about the NHLPA's 4-on-4 Challenge back in the '94 lockout. I know Max Talbot and friends were talking about exhibition games, but has the NHLPA considered trying this again, I wonder?
- BulliesPhan87

If you are interested in seeing a true beer league legend in person, you should get out to Ice Works on a Monday night to see #21 on Barnabys.. The guys does it all:
Blocks shots, wins faceoffs, gets into scraps, score(d)(s) goal(s), passes, falls.

And you'd be the backup to noted Maccabiah athlete Hammarby!
- bodiva88

No no no.. I don't think so...

I hear the frustration and passion coming from this loud and clear. I really think one of the biggest problems is that neither the League or the players, fear losing the fans. And I wouldn't either if I was in their position. I beleive they will lose very little of the fanbase from this. Both sides are dug in the sand and ready to hold their ground.
- MJL

The fans they have will be back, but I wouldn't be surprised if it hurt their potential for growth. Then again, this sentiment is probably mirroring a widely held and eventually disproven one from eight years ago.

Grumble grumble grumble

The fans they have will be back, but I wouldn't be surprised if it hurt their potential for growth. Then again, this sentiment is probably mirroring a widely held and eventually disproven one from eight years ago.

Grumble grumble grumble
- BulliesPhan87

Those that are fans will be back. Where I hear the most negative "whatta joke", "get a real sport" comments are from those I know who are "sports" fans who will watch an occasional hockey game because its sports. Those are the ones who will go away, and ARE going away to something else.

It may be a small segment, but it will make a dent. Those "sports" fans were all over the Stanley Cup playoffs and the winter classic because of the spectacle. They wont be back easily.

I love lockouts..........

Those that are fans will be back. Where I hear the most negative "whatta joke", "get a real sport" comments are from those I know who are "sports" fans who will watch an occasional hockey game because its sports. Those are the ones who will go away, and ARE going away to something else.

It may be a small segment, but it will make a dent. Those "sports" fans were all over the Stanley Cup playoffs and the winter classic because of the spectacle. They wont be back easily.
- MBFlyerfan

If they do the replacement players and make me do anything more than an email to get my money back, I'm gone as a paying customer. The mere idea makes me furious.

If they do the replacement players and make me do anything more than an email to get my money back, I'm gone as a paying customer. The mere idea makes me furious.
- bodiva88

I don't see it happening. The League has not done that in previous lockouts.

Those that are fans will be back. Where I hear the most negative "whatta joke", "get a real sport" comments are from those I know who are "sports" fans who will watch an occasional hockey game because its sports. Those are the ones who will go away, and ARE going away to something else.

It may be a small segment, but it will make a dent. Those "sports" fans were all over the Stanley Cup playoffs and the winter classic because of the spectacle. They wont be back easily.
- MBFlyerfan

I think even the casual Hockey fans come back full strength once meaningful games start. The casual fan really doesn't care about a lockout. They aren't devoted to Hockey anyway in Oct, Nov, Dec. They only really get into it in big games anyway. Such as heated rivalry games, or the playoffs. Once the Season resumes and the stretch drive starts for playoff seeds. And the playoffs start, all we'll be forgotten as if there was never a lockout.

The fans they have will be back, but I wouldn't be surprised if it hurt their potential for growth. Then again, this sentiment is probably mirroring a widely held and eventually disproven one from eight years ago.

Grumble grumble grumble
- BulliesPhan87

So depressing...
- Jimmygrazz

It will get worse.

If they do the replacement players and make me do anything more than an email to get my money back, I'm gone as a paying customer. The mere idea makes me furious.
- bodiva88

All I keep hearing from my friends is that I picked the perfect time to give up my tickets. Close friends know it had nothing to do with a potential lockout and how long and hard I wrestled with the idea.

Hockey's like a soap opera addiction for me. I'm still following it when there are no games.

It will get worse.
- ob18

Always riding the wind of optimism...

That's excellent work. I read somewhere last night that 2 Senator's from NJ wrote letters to the League urging them to get a deal done, as it is affecting some of their consitutents. I have no idea of the legal issues regarding this. But a lot of City and Local Governments contribute money to some of these NHL teams to promote commerce and help creat jobs. Well with a lockout, they aren't getting what they paid for. And it's taxpayer money. I'd like to see something done from that angle if it is at all feasible.
- MJL

It's business, certainly, but I'm still utterly frustrated with the NHL's inability to get labor disputes resolved timely. NHL hockey is three for three on potential lockouts going back to 1994. Fehr has been in charge of the NHLPA for two years, correct? There's been plenty of time him to get familiar with his job and the two sides to start talking. There was plenty of time this summer to start talking. It didn't happen, the two sides planned on putting regular season hockey in jeopardy.

(rant time, to clarify this post isn't an angry letter at you)

I understand they did this because long term gains via negotiations would outweigh short term revenues, but I still feel it hurts the brand. The fans came back last time, and the league grew to a bit over $3 billion. One can argue we'll all be back, or at least enough of us that it won't matter, and you'll probably be right. I can't help but look at the paradigm of successful professional sports, the NFL.

The NFL and NFLPA did their sparring, the necessary parties got involved, and they had a CBA in place with the time needed to get the ball rolling. The NHL and NHLPA, however, couldn't even be bothered to make offers until a lockout was less than a month away. Where the NFL maintained the hype of the season opening, hockey fans and casual fans have pretty much no idea what the deal is.

Now, it's not an even or entirely fair comparison. The two leagues have different issues to negotiate, and I don't have all the details (nor does anybody, I suppose). It's not exactly an even comparison to to judge hockey against football and its mass appeal. But I think it's fair to say football knows the value of maintaining the excitement its product has, and that's a big part of the mass appeal. It's a fixture in popular culture, and even through labor disputes, a year without a CBA, and a dispute with the referees (with embarrassing and hilarious results), football refused to give up its iron grip on the weekend.

So I'm going to backtrack and say I don't think it's assured everybody will be back when this is all done. I think a lot of people will be frustrated enough to reconsider. I don't think it's assured the league will grow the same way it did since the last lockout. These lockouts leave a lot of people with a firm opinion that the NHL is second rate among professional sports leagues, and right now I'm not inclined to argue with them.

(This rant, as they often do, lost focus but I think I got my point across)


- Richardie Dunn, AKA BulliesPhan87

You captured the spirit of the thing...

It will get worse.
- ob18

Wow. watsonnostaw hacked ur acct, d00d!

Always riding the wind of optimism...


- mayorofangrytown

They've given us little to hope for at this point, calling it like I see it.

Wow. watsonnostaw hacked ur acct, d00d!
- Flyskippy

I'm ready for a OHL road trip, you in?

I'm ready for a OHL road trip, you in?
- ob18

Heck, no. I have my son's hockey fees to pay tomorrow.

Heck, no. I have my son's hockey fees to pay tomorrow.


- Flyskippy

he won't mind you not paying them this 1 time.