First of all, what's so funny? Secondly, did I say I expect hockey in two days?? I would take you seriously if you were in the room negotiating but what I am getting from you is that these two sides waited for the last possible moments to do their jobs. Since they haven't, there is a work stoppage. You're also telling me they are so far apart that they haven't found a middle ground and started there. There is always a middle ground. So when exactly did these clowns begin negotiation and just how far apart are.they? Shy are we going week to week for talks? What are they doing on their days off?? Give me the facts according to you inch by inch
- SuperSchennBros

I found your response humorous. Secondly, you don't have to be in the room negotiating, to be informed on what's going on. There are numerous credible media outlets that have provided the information on what has happened to this point. I've chosen to be informed on the subject. I think there is room for criticism of the NHLPA for not going to the negotiation table sooner. But I wouldn't classify it as last minute.
Thirdly, no negotiation of this type starts at the middle ground. It starts at the opposite end of that, and works towards the middle ground. And clearly you said that this could be done in two days. I just replied that that is not a realistic expectation. It's going to take some time. Not an excuse, just the way it is. I don't like it either. And I understand the frustration. But it is what it is.

First of all, what's so funny? Secondly, did I say I expect hockey in two days?? I would take you seriously if you were in the room negotiating but what I am getting from you is that these two sides waited for the last possible moments to do their jobs. Since they haven't, there is a work stoppage. You're also telling me they are so far apart that they haven't found a middle ground and started there. There is always a middle ground. So when exactly did these clowns begin negotiation and just how far apart are.they? Shy are we going week to week for talks? What are they doing on their days off?? Give me the facts according to you inch by inch
- SuperSchennBros

You are wasting your time.

At the end, is that a giant video screen (probably) or does one end open up so it becomes an indoor outdoor ampitheatre?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6W-7Oif-7M
- mayorofangrytown

Not sure, pretty cool either way though.

How's the extended off-season been treating ya MOAT?

I found your response humorous. Secondly, you don't have to be in the room negotiating, to be informed on what's going on. There are numerous credible media outlets that have provided the information on what has happened to this point. I've chosen to be informed on the subject. I think there is room for criticism of the NHLPA for not going to the negotiation table sooner. But I wouldn't classify it as last minute.
Thirdly, no negotiation of this type starts at the middle ground. It starts at the opposite end of that, and works towards the middle ground. And clearly you said that this could be done in two days. I just replied that that is not a realistic expectation. It's going to take some time. Not an excuse, just the way it is. I don't like it either. And I understand the frustration. But it is what it is.
- MJL

You have a very odd sense of humor, which I wouldn't blame anyone if they took it as you insulting their intelligence, so let try and stay friendly. Now, you have stayed informed. I'm proud of you for that but you still haven't given me your inch by inch report according.to you. So far my information is wrong, so debrief me. So far it seems to me as a dumb fan is it's harder to get them in a room on a daily basis, then it is to negotiate. Are they still at square one?

Not sure, pretty cool either way though.

How's the extended off-season been treating ya MOAT?
- flyer_nutter

It's been pretty good. I gave up my tix anyhow so all I'm missing is the NHL news and games on TV. Still have at least a Midget game a week to go to and NCAA starts up this Friday so...

You still playing?

I found your response humorous. Secondly, you don't have to be in the room negotiating, to be informed on what's going on. There are numerous credible media outlets that have provided the information on what has happened to this point. I've chosen to be informed on the subject. I think there is room for criticism of the NHLPA for not going to the negotiation table sooner. But I wouldn't classify it as last minute.
Thirdly, no negotiation of this type starts at the middle ground. It starts at the opposite end of that, and works towards the middle ground. And clearly you said that this could be done in two days. I just replied that that is not a realistic expectation. It's going to take some time. Not an excuse, just the way it is. I don't like it either. And I understand the frustration. But it is what it is.
- MJL

You have a very odd sense of humor, which I wouldn't blame anyone if they took it as you insulting their intelligence, so let's try and stay friendly. Now, you have stayed informed. I'm proud of you for that but you still haven't given me your inch by inch report according.to you. So far my information is wrong, so debrief me. So far it seems to me as a dumb fan it's harder to get them in a room on a daily basis, then it is to negotiate. Are they still at square one?

You have a very odd sense of humor, which I wouldn't blame anyone if they took it as you insulting their intelligence, so let try and stay friendly. Now, you have stayed informed. I'm proud of you for that but you still haven't given me your inch by inch report according.to you. So far my information is wrong, so debrief me. So far it seems to me as a dumb fan is it's harder to get them in a room on a daily basis, then it is to negotiate. Are they still at square one?
- SuperSchennBros

As a by stander to this conversation I'll give you my take.

I think the PA was late to the table and I think that was on purpose. They could have started mid season and I believe Bettman would have tabled the same proposal that he pitched in July. I think there's a chance the players would have walked mid season and we wouldn't have had a Cup Final. (purely supposition)

When the NHL plopped down that first offer they made a huge mistake in attempting to roll back salaries 24%+ and (I read this at the Globe so it a bit of regurgitation) I think they realize it now. It's why they backed off the heavy HRR recalculation so quickly.

The Pa took their time countering. I believe they knew, given the recent NFL & NBA concessions, that they would be conceding to at least 50% during the deal. They didn't expect the NHL to open at 42%. That was a slap in the face. They then proposed rolling back salaries using the expected 7% yearly growth to balance the scales and get them from 57% down to 52% but back to 57% if profits exceeded the 7% by a certain amount. That was their stupid shot at the NHL that they knew they wouldn't get.

The NHL said no in 30 minutes and countered by eliminating the withheld HRR and starting the percentage at 51% rolling back to 46% over 5 years with a salary roll back to cover it.

The PA walked away for a couple weeks stunned that the time they put into their proposal was so quickly swept aside. They countered with a hard cap not tied to HRR starting at last years cap figure and slowly growing at far less than the revenue growth that over 6 years would land the NHL 67% of the cash they were asking in their first proposal but the revenue was not guaranteed because it wasn't tied to HRR..

I think I remember the league flatly saying no at the time of the proposal and coming back in 15 minutes with a counter which was basically their last proposal except eliminating the rollback and increasing the escrow to account for the difference. This just changed the terminology but was effectively a rollback on contracts.

The PA stepped away again.

Now they are trying to find some common ground to work toward the hard issues. Establishing a dialogue that produces something no matter how trivial just to get things moving in the right direction while Fehr & Fehr along with Bettman & Daly try to figure out how they are going to find that 50% after all the bungling and posturing that's already transpired. They both know that's where this would end now they have to really figure out when the NHL "REALLY" needs to get to that figure and how to get there without destroying already signed contracts like they did the last time which is apparently the line the PA has drawn in the sand.

Okay, I'm taking a nap.

I want the NHL to start looking into replacement players

@mayorofangrytown

Finally someone gets into detail and I thank fo your this. The fact of the matter is, they have taken their time and still are. They have waited. All of this is unacceptable.

@mayorofangrytown

Finally someone gets into detail and i thank for this. The fact of the matter is, they have taken their time and still are. They have waited. All of this is unacceptable.
- SuperSchennBros

It would have been better if the owners hadn't come in so low. If they came in and said, 'You're at 57%, we need to get to 47% and this is how we can do that..." They may have had a decent start. Instead they wanted to get to 50 and figured from 57 the other side of 50 is 42 or so, we'll meet in the middle. That didn't work.

What a lot of fans forget is that the players were making 73% of the revenue before we lost a season to get a cap. So in 7 years their percentage of HRR would drop nearly 43% as proposed by the NHL in their first tabled offer.

Their salaries are still rising but their piece of the pie is shrinking quickly. Each of the last two times the players have come to the table ready to sacrifice percentage points. They proposed the 24% the last time to avoid the cap. The owners took the 24% and the cap too. This time they came in giving up 5%+ depending on continued growth. The owners want more plus they want back the only meaningful concession they made to the players in the last CBA, UFA status.

If your dog pushed your brand new $50 stainless steel trash can down the basement stairs while you were at work and your 15 year old got pissed and only cleaned 3/4 of it up so the rest was left for when you got home at midnight you'd be angry too.


SO THERE!!!
- mayorofangrytown

My dog left me a similar treat yesterday. Right after I took him out to piss at 6AM...he proceeded to crap all over the house (much warmer, in his defense).

Feel your pain, but I still love the little guy more than anything (and oh yeah, my kids too).

You have a very odd sense of humor, which I wouldn't blame anyone if they took it as you insulting their intelligence, so let's try and stay friendly. Now, you have stayed informed. I'm proud of you for that but you still haven't given me your inch by inch report according.to you. So far my information is wrong, so debrief me. So far it seems to me as a dumb fan it's harder to get them in a room on a daily basis, then it is to negotiate. Are they still at square one?
- SuperSchennBros

Many a user has been banned for falling into these silly traps. Be careful SSB.

And when they get banned for responding to Lord Vader, they still come back to the GF of this board and complain. But you are warned.

@mayorofangrytown

Finally someone gets into detail and I thank fo your this. The fact of the matter is, they have taken their time and still are. They have waited. All of this is unacceptable.
- SuperSchennBros

IMHO - small market teams need more profit. Big market teams say great, get it from the players.

And here we are. It's that simple.

A pure movement in salary cap (% of revenues) will never be the sole answer. But I don't want to get into more details, as often I waste breath on the less sophisticated.

It's been pretty good. I gave up my tix anyhow so all I'm missing is the NHL news and games on TV. Still have at least a Midget game a week to go to and NCAA starts up this Friday so...

You still playing?
- mayorofangrytown

Playing as in, playing hockey?

Last I played for real was a couple of months back with the guys from high school. We have a thing every summer where the old gang gets together for some street hockey and see where we all are. About 10 guys and its fun. We still have the pads from our junior high days and thats what we use because everyone is too cheap to buy new one's.

Will finally be done nursing school in 2 years so I am hoping to get into a beer league after.

While I do miss the Flyers its not as much as I thought. Maybe I am becoming more numb to it after the last lockout. The one thing this lockout has really shown me is while the Flyers will always be my number one team, I really love the game more than any team or player.

Looking forward to the Juniors.

It would have been better if the owners hadn't come in so low. If they came in and said, 'You're at 57%, we need to get to 47% and this is how we can do that..." They may have had a decent start. Instead they wanted to get to 50 and figured from 57 the other side of 50 is 42 or so, we'll meet in the middle. That didn't work.

What a lot of fans forget is that the players were making 73% of the revenue before we lost a season to get a cap. So in 7 years their percentage of HRR would drop nearly 43% as proposed by the NHL in their first tabled offer.

Their salaries are still rising but their piece of the pie is shrinking quickly. Each of the last two times the players have come to the table ready to sacrifice percentage points. They proposed the 24% the last time to avoid the cap. The owners took the 24% and the cap too. This time they came in giving up 5%+ depending on continued growth. The owners want more plus they want back the only meaningful concession they made to the players in the last CBA, UFA status.
- mayorofangrytown

Thank you for bringing me up to speed.

See, if you're gonna call someone stupid, at least tell them why.

Thank you for bringing me up to speed.

See, if you're gonna call someone is stupid, at least tell them why.

- SuperSchennBros

Dont waste your time. That kind of poop is supposed to be cut out, based on the Code of Conduct or whatever.

If you do it indirectly like a big wig it's fine. Thats the catch. It's like some guys having to drive a Hummer just so they can say they drive a Hummer.

Really. Just ignoring posts is the easiest thing to do. Only a message board.

Anybody else miss hockey yet?
- BulliesPhan87

I will start missing it (a lot) when the Orioles make the final out of their season in a couple hours.

I've been away for so long, that I thought hockey would start without me.i was wrong I'm back Not that it matters

Dont waste your time. That kind of poop is supposed to be cut out, based on the Code of Conduct or whatever.

If you do it indirectly like a big wig it's fine. Thats the catch. It's like some guys having to drive a Hummer just so they can say they drive a Hummer.

Really. Just ignoring posts is the easiest thing to do. Only a message board.
- flyer_nutter

I agree. Too many people trying to get under your skin. Just ignore them.

The man, yes.

Da Man, no.
- Daman

thank god

thank god
- KINGKENZO

That hurts bro. That hurts.

I guess when you are appointed the GF by your peers, you have to accept there will be critics.

Regardless, have a good night my friend. God bless.


Cheers!

People are so sensitive on the Internet