The players are united in their cause. They all back their representation. Every player is allowed to attend the meetings and have their say, and participate in the process. In any group of people there are leaders who are influential. There is no doubt that that is the case with the players. None of the players want the rollbacks. The League has made multiple attempts at trying to divide the Union. It hasn't worked.
- MJL

Being united is fine for a union when the salary level of the members of the union are about the same. Not sure how long they stay united when what was once your ticket to retirement turns into you working a labor job when your career is cut short by a year or two.

Right now the PA is fighting to not give up anything, which is 100% unrealistic. The only thing they've conceded at this point is that they'll take a reduction in HRR, BUT only for a few years. They essentially want it to go right back to where it is now over the course of the CBA, if and when it gets worked out. Well, it's not gonna happen. The owners will not allow it to. The players are also going to have to concede some more somewhere else.

If they don't, that means that at some point, teams are going to be forced to fold. Less teams=less available rosters spots. How exactly is that going to benefit the players?
- HonkFortheGoose

Your incorrect there. The players have already agreed in principle to taking a lesser players share. To moving towards 50/50. So how are they not giving anything up? Over the course of a 5-6 year CBA, that could be a Billion dollars or more. The players aren't expecting to go back to 57%

The players are united in their cause. They all back their representation. Every player is allowed to attend the meetings and have their say, and participate in the process. In any group of people there are leaders who are influential. There is no doubt that that is the case with the players. None of the players want the rollbacks. The League has made multiple attempts at trying to divide the Union. It hasn't worked.
- MJL

I guess the NHLPA spin definitely comes across that way, wonder how a vote will go come Nov 23rd when Bettman says, this is it, if you dont take it, the season will be officially cancelled on Monday. The players are being mindwashed to think that being united & play this out because it will prevent future lockouts. Will they go donw the abyss? If owners sacrifice the year, Fehr may as well muck his hand. The owners will punish these players and there will be lots of colateral damage. Being pro player, you must admit there is a line of which these owners wont pass & then worst case scenario, they break the union. These guys have the money to do it.

Being united is fine for a union when the salary level of the members of the union are about the same. Not sure how long they stay united when what was once your ticket to retirement turns into you working a labor job when your career is cut short by a year or two.
- BigStew

It's always been that way with the players. There have been a couple of attempts by the League to break the Union's resolve. They haven't shown any sings of breaking to this point. In fact it seems as though they are getting stronger.

Your incorrect there. The players have already agreed in principle to taking a lesser players share. To moving towards 50/50. So how are they not giving anything up? Over the course of a 5-6 year CBA, that could be a Billion dollars or more. The players aren't expecting to go back to 57%
- MJL

You obviously haven't been paying attention. In theory, it goes to 50%, but in all the proposals that they gave to the NHL last month, the actual amount wasn't at 50%. It was masked in other aspects of the proposals. Really, they didn't concede anything. They just made it appear they did.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not on the owners side either. They are just as responsible for this mess. However, they realize that things need to change in order for the league to remain viable. Seems to be something you don't quite understand.

Yea, the players are just a bunch of dummies that all they know how to do is skate and shoot pucks. If were talking about naive, then this is it. And I'm not pro player or pro anybody. I'm pro getting Hockey back. And I can see both sides of the coin. And just recently I stated on here that the players, if it's true, wanting to be paid their full salary for the year, is an unreasonable demand.

And again, it is just your opinion and nothing more that I haven't looked at it objectively. Your simply wrong. Your problem is that you can't handle someone who has a different viewpoint then you have. And so you have to resort to personal remarks. Your not the only one.
- MJL

Oh I love the entertainment value of your posts!

I'm not he only one because many are calling you on your childish and subjective viewpoints and your inability to see things any other way than what you've created in your mind. You take it personally, because you're the only one with your viewpoints. So keep on posting, I'm loving it!

I guess the NHLPA spin definitely comes across that way, wonder how a vote will go come Nov 23rd when Bettman says, this is it, if you dont take it, the season will be officially cancelled on Monday. The players are being mindwashed to think that being united & play this out because it will prevent future lockouts. Will they go donw the abyss? If owners sacrifice the year, Fehr may as well muck his hand. The owners will punish these players and there will be lots of colateral damage. Being pro player, you must admit there is a line of which these owners wont pass & then worst case scenario, they break the union. These guys have the money to do it.
- Kevin R

The League is under a lot of pressure from outside sponsors and other sources to get the Season started. The League needs to play this year. That's why they're willing to throw another 200M into the pie. I think many are overplaying the League's willingness to cancel the Season.

You obviously haven't been paying attention. In theory, it goes to 50%, but in all the proposals that they gave to the NHL last month, the actual amount wasn't at 50%. It was masked in other aspects of the proposals. Really, they didn't concede anything. They just made it appear they did.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not on the owners side either. They are just as responsible for this mess. However, they realize that things need to change in order for the league to remain viable. Seems to be something you don't quite understand.
- HonkFortheGoose

Honk...good luck buddy! MJL just hasn't got a clue...or he's Donald Fehr's child!

You obviously haven't been paying attention. In theory, it goes to 50%, but in all the proposals that they gave to the NHL last month, the actual amount wasn't at 50%. It was masked in other aspects of the proposals. Really, they didn't concede anything. They just made it appear they did.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not on the owners side either. They are just as responsible for this mess. However, they realize that things need to change in order for the league to remain viable. Seems to be something you don't quite understand.
- HonkFortheGoose

I absolutely have been paying attention. James Mirtle has written a couple of articles with calculations that shows that the players offer get's to 50/50 over time. Please don't tell me what I don't understand. I haven't said that to you. I understand things just fine.

Your incorrect there. The players have already agreed in principle to taking a lesser players share. To moving towards 50/50. So how are they not giving anything up? Over the course of a 5-6 year CBA, that could be a Billion dollars or more. The players aren't expecting to go back to 57%
- MJL

So explain to me how you can go to 50/50 HRR and have have their contracts 100% guaranteed? How can you assume that this season coming up will be played on a shortened season, therefore the HRR will not be 3.3 bill & that the following year doesnt struggle to get anywhere close to that Revenue as well? Who takes that hit because the players want their full contracts paid, just like they want most of their contracts paid upfront as well. Isnt that what this is about. The rich players not wanting to take the hit during their front loaded contracts are kicking in? OK, that sure looks like solidarity to me.

Honk...good luck buddy! MJL just hasn't got a clue...or he's Donald Fehr's child!
- jbearx

As fans what we need to do is realize that there are changes that need to be made for both sides.

I believe that the contracts that are already signed should be honored. However, going forward there are aspects of the way contracts have been drawn up that need to be changed. In order for the league to not be bleeding money year after year, something has to change. If it doesn't, it'll never survive.

So explain to me how you can go to 50/50 HRR and have have their contracts 100% guaranteed? How can you assume that this season coming up will be played on a shortened season, therefore the HRR will not be 3.3 bill & that the following year doesnt struggle to get anywhere close to that Revenue as well? Who takes that hit because the players want their full contracts paid, just like they want most of their contracts paid upfront as well. Isnt that what this is about. The rich players not wanting to take the hit during their front loaded contracts are kicking in? OK, that sure looks like solidarity to me.
- Kevin R

You can't get to 50/50 immediately with player contracts guaranteed. It has to happen over time. Which is the so called soft landing. That's what they're negotiating and working on with make whole. The sides are about 400M apart right now. There is middle ground that can be found there.
You can't assume anything as far as future revenue. Obviously this year won't grow, with the lockout.

I absolutely have been paying attention. James Mirtle has written a couple of articles with calculations that shows that the players offer get's to 50/50 over time. Please don't tell me what I don't understand. I haven't said that to you. I understand things just fine.
- MJL

Instead of telling me I don't understand, you simply state that I am wrong. Which is not something that can be, since all of these things we are debating are opinions. Everyone is entitled to theirs. I just think you're blind faith for the union is clouding the facts.

You can certainly continue down this path, but at some point, if something doesn't change, there won't be an NHL to even speak of.

As fans what we need to do is realize that there are changes that need to be made for both sides.

I believe that the contracts that are already signed should be honored. However, going forward there are aspects of the way contracts have been drawn up that need to be changed. In order for the league to not be bleeding money year after year, something has to change. If it doesn't, it'll never survive.
- HonkFortheGoose

I agree. And that's really what both sides are positioning for right now. The next battleground over player contract issues. Teams have not shown that they can control themselves in handing out contracts.

Instead of telling me I don't understand, you simply state that I am wrong. Which is not something that can be, since all of these things we are debating are opinions. Everyone is entitled to theirs. I just think you're blind faith for the union is clouding the facts.

You can certainly continue down this path, but at some point, if something doesn't change, there won't be an NHL to even speak of.
- HonkFortheGoose

I don't have any blind faith, nor is it clouding the facts. You stated that the Players Union doesn't want to give anything up. And that is simply not true.

I don't have any blind faith, nor is it clouding the facts. You stated that the Players Union doesn't want to give anything up. And that is simply not true.
- MJL

Other than a bogus concession to the HRR, what have they conceded? Maybe I missed something somewhere. Enlighten me.

Other than a bogus concession to the HRR, what have they conceded? Maybe I missed something somewhere. Enlighten me.
- HonkFortheGoose

It's not bogus. It's very,very real. And depending on growth, it could be a concession of well over a billion dollars. Again, James Mirtle has written some very good articles on this. With figures and calculations.

If the players weren't willing to give up anything, there wouldn't have been negotiations ongoing for the last 4 days.

It's not bogus. It's very,very real. And depending on growth, it could be a concession of well over a billion dollars. Again, James Mirtle has written some very good articles on this. With figures and calculations.
- MJL

Anything else? If that's the only thing they've "conceded" so far, then this season is never going to happen.

I get that they need to stand their ground about certain subjects. But at the same time, the league has made concessions on the HRR side of things as well. So that's equal. They've also given in on the make whole aspect, to a point. I realize that this concession is a bit like the players concession of the HRR. So right now, the league has agreed to more sacrifice than the players have.

Anything else? If that's the only thing they've "conceded" so far, then this season is never going to happen.

I get that they need to stand their ground about certain subjects. But at the same time, the league has made concessions on the HRR side of things as well. So that's equal. They've also given in on the make whole aspect, to a point. I realize that this concession is a bit like the players concession of the HRR. So right now, the league has agreed to more sacrifice than the players have.
- HonkFortheGoose

That's the whole point of a negotiation. You don't give up everything at once. It's a process. The league made a huge concession recently in adding over 200M to the players. The players feel that that isn't enough. I think both sides are willing to move more there. But if they do, they're going to want something else. And that something else is player contract issues. That's the next big battleground to solve. The League isn't going to move more on make whole, without big take backs and concessions from the players on contract issues. Same for the players. They aren't going to move towards the League on Make whole AND give up big concessions on contract issues. So that's the next big hurdle towards a deal.

One of the most ridiculous premises that has come out of all this by a lot of the fans, is that the players aren't intelligent, and can't figure out what is really happening. It's hysterical.
- MJL

Most of the players are not very intelligent.

About 10 years ago I contacted a former Flyer player who was in broadcasting at the time. I asked him help in securing a professional athlete for a career fair for high school students. He told me that hockey players weren't someone you would want to speak at a career fair ("if you know what I mean"). That they had no clue about a career.

Most of the players are not very intelligent.

About 10 years ago I contacted a former Flyer player who was in broadcasting at the time. I asked him help in securing a professional athlete for a career fair for high school students. He told me that hockey players weren't someone you would want to speak at a career fair ("if you know what I mean"). That they had no clue about a career.
- Jacob582

Well there you go. Actual proof that Hockey players are dumb!

I disagree completely. Other then a few such as Barche, the players comments have been reasonable.
- MJL

I have read many fans who have been turned off by the player's side because of what they have tweeted and said.

I have read many fans who have been turned off by the player's side because of what they have tweeted and said.
- Jacob582

Of course they have. Many blame the players for taking Hockey away from them.

So explain to me how you can go to 50/50 HRR and have have their contracts 100% guaranteed? How can you assume that this season coming up will be played on a shortened season, therefore the HRR will not be 3.3 bill & that the following year doesnt struggle to get anywhere close to that Revenue as well? Who takes that hit because the players want their full contracts paid, just like they want most of their contracts paid upfront as well. Isnt that what this is about. The rich players not wanting to take the hit during their front loaded contracts are kicking in? OK, that sure looks like solidarity to me.
- Kevin R

I agree.

Their contracts were never guaranteed to be paid in full during the last CBA either.

Well there you go. Actual proof that Hockey players are dumb!

- MJL

It's not just hockey players. Most professional athletes aren't. They're not supposed to be. They're not paid to be.