Of course they have. Many blame the players for taking Hockey away from them.
- MJL

Because the amount of comments players have made to insult the fans' intelligence far outweigh those made by the owners. That's why the owners have it right. There's no good that can come out of saying anything, and they've figured it out. The players are so delusional that they, as relatively uneducated 20-to-30-somethings, think they can "educate" the fans, many of whom are CPAs, lawyers, and hold other positions in finance, how finance works.

Well there you go. Actual proof that Hockey players are dumb!

- MJL

More proof: After a fan was giving a former hockey player a hard time for spelling words wrong is a tweet. He tweets back: while you were in a classroom learning, I was in a rink playing hockey.

Because the amount of comments players have made to insult the fans' intelligence far outweigh those made by the owners. That's why the owners have it right. There's no good that can come out of saying anything, and they've figured it out. The players are so delusional that they, as relatively uneducated 20-to-30-somethings, think they can "educate" the fans, many of whom are CPAs, lawyers, and hold other positions in finance, how finance works.
- buffalofan19

I agree.

The NHLPA would have been better off if the players weren't allowed to say anything. The players and the league would be better off too, instead of turning legions of fans against them.

Your talking about over 700 players. There are players that if the Season is cancelled, their careers are over. Your not going to have a situation where every player is happy with everything that happens. That's just not reality. But there is situation that can be best for the overwhelming majority of players. And that is what the PA is fighting for.
- MJL

I don't think what they are fighting for is in the best interest of the majority of players.

The majority of players will end up losing more via games missed and impacts to revenue than they will get back under any deal they currently sign with the NHL They are closing in on almost 15% salaries lost this year, and if the season is set at 60 games, it will be over 20%, factor in short-term impacts to revenues, and they might just be worse off than if they had negotiated off the NHL deal with "make work" deferred and paid for by the owners.

The majority of players will never come close to being able to make that money back.

Some players will.

But the NHLPA is not really fighting for the majority of players or a specific minority - they are fighting on a principal.

Good for them. Bad for their wallet.

It's always been that way with the players. There have been a couple of attempts by the League to break the Union's resolve. They haven't shown any sings of breaking to this point. In fact it seems as though they are getting stronger.
- MJL

I would say the NHL got exactly what they wanted last time. The only problem was, they didn't really know what they wanted.

I would say the NHL got exactly what they wanted last time. The only problem was, they didn't really know what they wanted.
- BigStew

They knew what they got, they were just surprisingly unrealistic in assuming the GMs, agents and players would follow the spirit of the CBA rather than exploit all the loopholes.

I think the NHL is trying to close a lot of those loopholes as part of the new CBA, yet players see them as "benefits", which is part of the problem with the current negotiations.

It's not just hockey players. Most professional athletes aren't. They're not supposed to be. They're not paid to be.
- buffalofan19

Okay, so anyone who isn't paid to be smart. Isn't smart?

They knew what they got, they were just surprisingly unrealistic in assuming the GMs, agents and players would follow the spirit of the CBA rather than exploit all the loopholes.

I think the NHL is trying to close a lot of those loopholes as part of the new CBA, yet players see them as "benefits", which is part of the problem with the current negotiations.
- JDJ

I agree and that's why I will be surprised if they play this year. I think it is going to take a year and a half for the players to give the NHL what they want. This league doesn't make enough money to hurt the owners in the pocket book. Sure a few of the owners will lose some money but they have markets that will always come back and in the long run they will get their money back and then some.

Because the amount of comments players have made to insult the fans' intelligence far outweigh those made by the owners. That's why the owners have it right. There's no good that can come out of saying anything, and they've figured it out. The players are so delusional that they, as relatively uneducated 20-to-30-somethings, think they can "educate" the fans, many of whom are CPAs, lawyers, and hold other positions in finance, how finance works.
- buffalofan19

I agree that the players should refrain from speaking publicly. For these very reasons. That for some who blame the players, will totally misconstrue anything they say. And I also disagree that the players are trying to educate anyone. They are simply speaking from their viewpoint.

They knew what they got, they were just surprisingly unrealistic in assuming the GMs, agents and players would follow the spirit of the CBA rather than exploit all the loopholes.

I think the NHL is trying to close a lot of those loopholes as part of the new CBA, yet players see them as "benefits", which is part of the problem with the current negotiations.
- JDJ

Not as benefits. But as concessions won in the last CBA.

I agree and that's why I will be surprised if they play this year. I think it is going to take a year and a half for the players to give the NHL what they want. This league doesn't make enough money to hurt the owners in the pocket book. Sure a few of the owners will lose some money but they have markets that will always come back and in the long run they will get their money back and then some.
- BigStew

I believer there is going to be Hockey this year. The League is under a lot of pressure to get a deal done.

Not as benefits. But as concessions won in the last CBA.
- MJL

I don't consider exploiting loopholes as a form of concession won in the last CBA.

I don't consider exploiting loopholes as a form of concession won in the last CBA.
- JDJ

Free Agency, Contract terms, EL deals, are all concessions won in the last CBA.

I believer there is going to be Hockey this year. The League is under a lot of pressure to get a deal done.
- MJL

I see it more as the NHL trying to get a deal done by December 1st or blowing the season up. So obviously, they are going to try their hardest now.

The NHLPA continues to be lackadaisical about getting a deal done, either because they believe the NHL will cave to their demands or they do not believe the NHL will cancel the season any time soon.

(Likely both).

I honestly believe the owners are more than willing to risk the season than the players believe and I do think it is by December 1st or no hockey at all.... so factoring in training camps and building the schedule, etc... realistically there is 10-14 days to lock it all down.

Free Agency, Contract terms, EL deals, are all concessions won in the last CBA.
- MJL

Read what I wrote - I was SPECIFICALLY talking about loopholes in the CBA, not firm agreements on specifics such as you listed above.

If you cannot reply properly, then don't bother replying at all.

I see it more as the NHL trying to get a deal done by December 1st or blowing the season up. So obviously, they are going to try their hardest now.

The NHLPA continues to be lackadaisical about getting a deal done, either because they believe the NHL will cave to their demands or they do not believe the NHL will cancel the season any time soon.

(Likely both).

I honestly believe the owners are more than willing to risk the season than the players believe and I do think it is by December 1st or no hockey at all.... so factoring in training camps and building the schedule, etc... realistically there is 10-14 days to lock it all down.
- JDJ

I honestly believe that the Owners are less willing to cancel the Season then you believe.

Read what I wrote - I was SPECIFICALLY talking about loopholes in the CBA, not firm agreements on specifics such as you listed above.

If you cannot reply properly, then don't bother replying at all.
- JDJ

My reply didn't meet your standards! Oh I'm so sorry! Is there a guide that you can provide on how to reply properly?



I view them as connected. The loopholes don't exist if there are term limits on contract length.

Read what I wrote - I was SPECIFICALLY talking about loopholes in the CBA, not firm agreements on specifics such as you listed above.

If you cannot reply properly, then don't bother replying at all.
- JDJ

No You're Wrong...You're Incorrect! MJL will most definitely be replying to this...we just don't understand him is all.

My reply didn't meet your standards! Oh I'm so sorry! Is there a guide that you can provide on how to reply properly?


- MJL

And true to form

My reply didn't meet your standards! Oh I'm so sorry! Is there a guide that you can provide on how to reply properly?



I view them as connected. The loopholes don't exist if there are term limits on contract length.
- MJL

If you are going to reply to a specific comment discussed, then reply to that comment. not some other irrelevant points.

Basic logic.

If you are going to reply to a specific comment discussed, then reply to that comment. not some other irrelevant points.

Basic logic.
- JDJ

I'll reply to a comment as I see fit.

The loopholes and the contracts issues such as contract term limits, are connected. Basic logic.

If you are going to reply to a specific comment discussed, then reply to that comment. not some other irrelevant points.

Basic logic.
- JDJ

He's a Flyers fan. He doesn't understand basic logic.

Only Good thoughts for Mr Geoffrion . Here is hoping for a full and speedy recovery for him. Injury like that puts all this other bickering in perspective .

Only Good thoughts for Mr Geoffrion . Here is hoping for a full and speedy recovery for him. Injury like that puts all this other bickering in perspective .
- Maximum Signal

My thoughts also go out to Blake Geoffrion for a speedy recovery.

I've tried to stay out of the lockout conversation because I believe both sides have legitimate concerns. Plus, not being in the negotiations makes it impossible to truly know what is being discussed. Without the knowledge you are left with nothing but speculation and assumption.

I would just like to say that when people comment that the owners take all the risk, remember, sometimes the players have their own risks like fractured skulls, or career ending concussion problems. See: Steve Moore, Pat LaFontaine, Eric Lindross, Paul Kariya, Donald Brashear, Adam Deadmarsh, Ian Laperriere, Chris Pronger, Marc Savard, etc.

The Bills are a complete disaster, how the hell Nix and Gailey still have a job is beyond me. $100 mill for Williams he should be fired just for that alone, no way would I allow Nix and Gailey to continue with this team. I don't have the stomach to talk about Fitz.