I understood they had the idea to look at the books to some extent. I was also under the impression that the omitted list was not the only area that people were questioning. Plus there are other benefits to owing a team that value that aren't looked at. Marketing and cross marketing being large. Real estate being a big one for many owners as well. Plus free autographs... think about it.

I agree they should have worked under the same cap number and I expected teams to be cautious with their spending this summer but I don't remember reading anywhere that any team was told to be. I think every GM knew full well that if they went over it wouldn't be their problem to sort out. However for some a cap raise was needed to sign players as they already were at their max and they expect the new CBA to bring old contracts down.

I agree that both sides are not going to agree with it but the hard truth is that both sides should have figured this out by July. I don't think anyone here actually thinks they tried to negotiate at all in the summer. They both played hard ball hoping for the best deal possible when the reality of the situation was known. Recent lockouts should have had them talking all year.

No side will win this. This is not like the last lockout when hockey wasn't doing well. Hockey was arguably at a peak. I know here in Kamloops that our minor league team is selling out game after game and they are on a tear. I for one am going to buy season tickets to them instead of my game pack to the canucks next year. It is cheaper and I don't have to make the crazy drive through the snow. Plus I actually have a favorite KHL team and enjoy the SEL. I can catch their games online and they play with some real intensity. The NHL is no longer the only league and now the players and fans have a real taste for it. That can't help them. In the back of every mind I know I will be thinking when the cup is hoisted; were the best players playing in this league?
- bsteinley

They should have figured it out in July.

That idea went out the window the day the players hired Fehr. You don't go hire a Donald Fehr if you are interested in making a deal. You hire him when you are interested in having a fight.

Fehr proved this was exactly the case when he delayed 7 months. He then delayed 5 weeks. By all accounts he has been purposely antagonistic throughout the negotiations. The players have yet to submit an actual proposal. They have submitted thoughts, sometimes even without having run the numbers. I understand why this true (before an Ahole like MJL responds by trying to explain it to me in Urdu or whatever language he is speaking today that bears very little resemblence to English). It is all part of Fehr's plan.

That is great and everything. Congrats to you Fehr, you succeeded in getting the owners to make consecutive offers and bargain against themselves. No matter that those times are done methinks, and the players are down in net dollars so far...

The problem I have is that you don't get to pull this crap and then stand up like Cindy Crosby and cry that it is the owners who are not interested in making a deal.

cancel the season... clap clap!

cancel the season... clap clap!

cancel the season... clap clap!
- whipper334

Did you send your jersey to Bettman?

If there is no deal struck by US Thanksgiving the NHL will cancel games through Dec 15th, then NHL will cancel the season somewhere around the middle of December. After that, the nuclear winter will set in and the NHL as we know will end. The NHLPA will begin the process of starting the basis for an unfair labor practice agaisnt Bettman and the owners, followed closely by a challenge to the entire CBA salary cap and all. I suppose it's possible there may be a hybrid NHL come October of 2013, but I wouldn't count on it. Many NHL careers will be over, and Gary Bettman will finally resign as Commissioner after the owners take a no confidence vote. Only Jeremy Jacobs votes for keeping Bettman as commish and he is burned in effigy in the parking lot adjacent the beautiful TD Bank Garden. In the eventual new NHL, the Coyotes, Islanders, Predators, Panthers, Columbus and possibly Lightning, Devils and Ducks will fold and cease operations. The 3 billion dollars in revenue will be long gone, and the Don Cherry's of the world will embrace the new league saying it's better than ever, while never looking back twice at those who scarficed their careers for a better CBA and league.
- OLDSCHOOL#6

Drink much?

The dubious part for me is that players negotiating a contract ALWAYS have to have their contract amounts fit under the current Cap/Escrow balances. That does not change.

Does it become more onerous than what the players experienced under the last CBA? Yes. Does it mean less money available to the players going forward, Yes.

However the mechanism is not "new". It is just the way the numbers would have worked out. The catch-phrase the PA came up with though is more BS posturing.

... not that the owners have not done their share of the same. They most certainly have ... "no rollbacks" anyone??
- Aetherial

Very true but the make whole escrow is completely different. The current escrow is in place as an engine if revenue projections didn't pan out (which the last few years they did or came very close to). But it was a year to year escrow and had zero effect on future years. The owners make whole escrow took from future years so in fact was not a make whole provision at all. However they have moved off of that position so this is more or less mute at this point.

Very true but the make whole escrow is completely different. The current escrow is in place as an engine if revenue projections didn't pan out (which the last few years they did or came very close to). But it was a year to year escrow and had zero effect on future years. The owners make whole escrow took from future years so in fact was not a make whole provision at all. However they have moved off of that position so this is more or less mute at this point.
- uf1910

"moot" point, but yes, your description is more clear and accurate than mine

That article is dealing with future years beyond this year in the deal. Call it amnesty, or call it what ever you want. But teams were told to conduct business as usual during the Summer using the 70M Cap figure. And that if the Cap was reduced for the upcoming Season, teams wouldn't be punished for being over. The following Season however, all bets are off. And teams will have to comply.
- MJL

Yes, teams were told to conduct "business as usual" in March, and that they could do so under a $70.2 million cap in June. They were also told "don't put yourself up there and then expect help if the cap ends up dropping" and some teams (insert your favorites here) did it anyway expecting that the league would go soft on them instead of actually forcing them to disgorge contracts or pay up to get compliant. I'll go digging later on for articles stating the "don't go crazy" part.

Amnesty is amnesty. That includes "we'll let you go over the cap without penalty" or "we'll let you buy out guys without it counting against the cap" or any other method used to help teams get compliant with the salary cap that wouldn't be ordinarily available. Either don't allow it at all, or allow it at a price (you have to shell out the cash for the buyout, you have to shell out cash to be over the cap, etc.).

I think the PA and the league should both take everything off the table, salary cap, guaranteed contracts, revenue sharing, escrow... everything and start again.

There is no reason the players should have to accept a salary cap anymore. There is no reason the owners should have to guarantee contracts.

This becomes like maintaining software over time. The more you change it, play with it, tweak it, add in new rules and exceptions... the more it becomes so F'd up and convoluted that it can no longer do its job.

The CBA needs to be simpler, and for that they need to start from scratch.

Rather than fight over how to change the old CBA... I wish both sides came with a clean slate, sometime last February or so.

I realize that this is fantasy-land stuff though.
- Aetherial

OK, maybe not go completely back to "start from scratch" but certainly back down to "here's what the 2005 CBA looked like" and go from there.

it is far more reasonable than what you may have been reading about; teams who are already close to 70Million having to suddenly get to $60M.

This is actually a great scenario and would make things far more exciting for us fans!

I would love to see teams with 70million spent be forced to trade superstars for draft picks, you want a reason for fans to come back? How about 2 weeks of big name trades before the start of the season...

If there is no deal struck by US Thanksgiving the NHL will cancel games through Dec 15th, then NHL will cancel the season somewhere around the middle of December. After that, the nuclear winter will set in and the NHL as we know will end. The NHLPA will begin the process of starting the basis for an unfair labor practice agaisnt Bettman and the owners, followed closely by a challenge to the entire CBA salary cap and all. I suppose it's possible there may be a hybrid NHL come October of 2013, but I wouldn't count on it. Many NHL careers will be over, and Gary Bettman will finally resign as Commissioner after the owners take a no confidence vote. Only Jeremy Jacobs votes for keeping Bettman as commish and he is burned in effigy in the parking lot adjacent the beautiful TD Bank Garden. In the eventual new NHL, the Coyotes, Islanders, Predators, Panthers, Columbus and possibly Lightning, Devils and Ducks will fold and cease operations. The 3 billion dollars in revenue will be long gone, and the Don Cherry's of the world will embrace the new league saying it's better than ever, while never looking back twice at those who scarficed their careers for a better CBA and league.
- OLDSCHOOL#6

The season will be canceled in concert with the galactic alignment.

This is actually a great scenario and would make things far more exciting for us fans!

I would love to see teams with 70million spent be forced to trade superstars for draft picks, you want a reason for fans to come back? How about 2 weeks of big name trades before the start of the season...
- conor_smythe

wowzers!!!

This is actually a great scenario and would make things far more exciting for us fans!

I would love to see teams with 70million spent be forced to trade superstars for draft picks, you want a reason for fans to come back? How about 2 weeks of big name trades before the start of the season...
- conor_smythe

Sure, why don't we have a complete reset. Fehr can declare all of the players free agents and we'll start from scratch.

Chris Johnston @reporterchris "All kinds of pessimism in hockey circles. It's not inconceivable U.S. Thanksgiving comes and goes before NHL and NHLPA negotiate again."

Reading things like this and it confirms what I have thought all along. The Owners and the Players are 100% oblivious to the damage this is doing to the game.

The season will be canceled in concert with the galactic alignment.
- blackhawk24

Just remember you read it here first.

Chris Johnston @reporterchris "All kinds of pessimism in hockey circles. It's not inconceivable U.S. Thanksgiving comes and goes before NHL and NHLPA negotiate again."

Reading things like this and it confirms what I have thought all along. The Owners and the Players are 100% oblivious to the damage this is doing to the game.
- opeth_pa

The owners are currently waiting on a proposal from the NHLPA. The NHLPA has been notoriously late in submitting proposals and the ones they do submit are incomplete at best. I'm not sure how you can blame them equally in not wanting to resolve this. The NHLPA's sole strategy seems to be to not negotiate and instead try to outwait the NHL while insulting them.

They've agreed to a meaningless PR point so far that means nothing without substance to back it up while relentlessly hammering their employers.

Sure, why don't we have a complete reset. Fehr can declare all of the players free agents and we'll start from scratch.


- dawgzhouse

double wowzers

Did you send your jersey to Bettman?
- SPIDEROCKSTAR

I should send it to the NHLPA!!!

like the old saying goes if it aint broke dont fix it!! wait.....uh......er.....

I'm not sure how you can blame them equally in not wanting to resolve this.
- Flyers_01

At various points over this process it has seemed either side was taking the lead in resolving this and that's great.

What both sides are responsible for is allowing it to get to this point. Both sides seem oblivious to the damage this is causing.

The season will be canceled in concert with the galactic alignment.
- blackhawk24

Hi

At various points over this process it has seemed either side was taking the lead in resolving this and that's great.

What both sides are responsible for is allowing it to get to this point. Both sides seem oblivious to the damage this is causing.
- opeth_pa

I think what happens is that there comes a time when the sentiment is "Oh well, we f'cked it up already, no sense getting a "bad" deal now. We might as well wait."

Yes, teams were told to conduct "business as usual" in March, and that they could do so under a $70.2 million cap in June. They were also told "don't put yourself up there and then expect help if the cap ends up dropping" and some teams (insert your favorites here) did it anyway expecting that the league would go soft on them instead of actually forcing them to disgorge contracts or pay up to get compliant. I'll go digging later on for articles stating the "don't go crazy" part.

Amnesty is amnesty. That includes "we'll let you go over the cap without penalty" or "we'll let you buy out guys without it counting against the cap" or any other method used to help teams get compliant with the salary cap that wouldn't be ordinarily available. Either don't allow it at all, or allow it at a price (you have to shell out the cash for the buyout, you have to shell out cash to be over the cap, etc.).
- Irish Blues

I think teams are fully aware that whatever "amnesty" is granted for this Season, isn't going to exist for the following Seasons. There is going to be a lot of teams struggling to fill out a roster or sign players. And a lot of that free spending could come back to bite them for sure.

Eklund: NHL Waiting For NHLPA's Offer. The Year 1 Cap Dilemma NOT So Bad. 12-1-12?
- Eklund

The date that nhl hockey will start is October 13th 2013.

The owners are currently waiting on a proposal from the NHLPA. The NHLPA has been notoriously late in submitting proposals and the ones they do submit are incomplete at best. I'm not sure how you can blame them equally in not wanting to resolve this. The NHLPA's sole strategy seems to be to not negotiate and instead try to outwait the NHL while insulting them.

They've agreed to a meaningless PR point so far that means nothing without substance to back it up while relentlessly hammering their employers.
- Flyers_01

It's easy to blame them equally. Right now, the players say they are ready to negotiate at any time. And says the League isn't willing to negotiate on the contract issues. The League in turn says they are, so come to the table, and see that were willing to negotiate on those issues. And they say they want a new proposal from the PA. So why aren't they negotiating? I'd say it's both sides causing this. How many times has the NHL put limits or restrictions on what they're willing to discuss? That isn't how you negotiate. And that has kept the PA from the table. Because they won't be dicatated to like that.

It seems like many just want the PA to give in to the League and not fight for what they need in the deal.

The date that nhl hockey will start is October 13th 2013.


- dmnted

I hope! The players can go (frank) themselves...

It's easy to blame them equally. Right now, the players say they are ready to negotiate at any time. And says the League isn't willing to negotiate on the contract issues. The League in turn says they are, so come to the table, and see that were willing to negotiate on those issues. And they say they want a new proposal from the PA. So why aren't they negotiating? I'd say it's both sides causing this. How many times has the NHL put limits or restrictions on what they're willing to discuss? That isn't how you negotiate. And that has kept the PA from the table. Because they won't be dicatated to like that.

It seems like many just want the PA to give in to the League and not fight for what they need in the deal.
- MJL

They don't "need" anything at this point.

It's not greed; I've never been happy when people say that. The players have a right to ask for whatever they want.

But don't use "need."