I took a quick peek at the Broward County document - there isn't enough information there to be able to make the conclusions that the author of the article makes - there's too much funny stuff going on.

From 2004 to 2005 (fiscal years, so more or less the same as hockey seasons) there is a dip in revenues of about $7 million. But only a dip in expenses of about $1 million. That doesn't make sense.

And then from 2005 to 2006, there's a jump in revenues of about $16.5 million, but a jump in operating expenses of about $8.5 million.

Once again, that doesn't make sense.

I have no idea about the accounting practices of Florida, but I do know enough to say that there is something going on there beyond the impact of the lockout.

But ultimately, you can't make any conclusions. There's just too much unknown.
- Atomic Wedgie

I havent looked at the Broward County document, so I'll take you at your word on that. But would also agree that there is too much unknown about the true financial pictures of teams to rely on Forbes Magazine as an accurate source?

I've been saying that since the beginning. If Fehr was smart, he would have told the players this:

I'm going to be a tough S.O.B. until the day before training camp opens, and then we will sign the best deal we can get on that day.

It may look like we are giving up a lot, but don't worry; I guaran-effing-tee that the owners will figure out a way to eff themselves over.

They do it every time.

Trust me.
- Atomic Wedgie

There is a Key word there!!!

You seem to be pretty sure of yourself there champ..... How would you know who Ek talks too? Pretty sure Ek is honest about who he talks too


- Flyers_1488

is this a joke?

is this a joke?
- hugefemale dog77

god i hope so.....

I havent looked at the Broward County document, so I'll take you at your word on that. But would also agree that there is too much unknown about the true financial pictures of teams to rely on Forbes Magazine as an accurate source?
- MJL

It's the best number out there, but at the end of the day it is still an educated guess.

What I do find telling, however, is that the NHLPA hasn't gone to great lengths to discredit the numbers. Keep in mind; they have the actual financials of each and every team.

If every team was making money, the NHLPA would have let us know that by now.

But getting back to your original question: yeah, it's a fun info-graphic by Forbes. It isn't a tax return.

It's the best number out there, but at the end of the day it is still an educated guess.

What I do find telling, however, is that the NHLPA hasn't gone to great lengths to discredit the numbers. Keep in mind; they have the actual financials of each and every team.

If every team was making money, the NHLPA would have let us know that by now.

But getting back to your original question: yeah, it's a fun info-graphic by Forbes. It isn't a tax return.
- Atomic Wedgie

to be fair though, the NHL hasn't exactly made a great effort to argue they're losing a bunch of money like they did last time either, for whatever reason. they've just tried to paint Fehr and the PA as unreasonable and greedy (and seem to just point to the fact that two other leagues rolled back from 57%, just arguing for it as precedent)

Am I detecting a hint of anti-union bias...?
- MnGump

Nope just anti-Fehr bias right now.

is this a joke?
- hugefemale dog77

Did you not see the

Guessing Not

Anyone who still takes the NHL's point of view at face value, this is a MUST READ: http://blogs.edmontonjour...ng-teams-that-lose-money/

In sum, the Florida Panthers - the Panthers - make money and demonstrate how HRR and its derivative "losses" are completely bogus numbers.
- S Kaspar Rollins

grain of salt imo.

everyone seems to have there own agenda.
my first thought was it all seemed so damning...but a few well placed sentences, the obvious opposite possibility quickly pushed aside, and most of all the omission that theres some glaring holes in his story.

"Interestingly, the picture that Forbes paints is at odds with that presented by Broward County.-----
The county receives revenue sharing only if the Panthers organization hits a certain profit level"

Update

"As Erin Bolen points out at SBNation, the audit by Broward County is limited to financial date for the Arena Operating Company, the division of Sunrise Sports & Entertainment".

"with that said the above piece at times confuses the financial data for the arena operating company with the financial data for Sunrise Sports and Entertainment, due to my misreading portions of the audit. That’s an important distinction to make, and I’m indebted to Bolen for bringing it to my attention."

Did you not see the

Guessing Not
- Flyers_1488

i didnt
i feel shame..

Yes, I do too. But I place far more onus on the owner's responsibility to move to get a deal done than I do on the players union than you obviously do. The league have had record revenue numbers for seven years. THEY, not the players, need to move to get this thing done.
- triggermartin

The NFL and NBA had record revenue and the players had to move.

It's the best number out there, but at the end of the day it is still an educated guess.

What I do find telling, however, is that the NHLPA hasn't gone to great lengths to discredit the numbers. Keep in mind; they have the actual financials of each and every team.

If every team was making money, the NHLPA would have let us know that by now.

But getting back to your original question: yeah, it's a fun info-graphic by Forbes. It isn't a tax return.
- Atomic Wedgie

yes

fehr has constantly reiterated the question of why give back with these record revenues.
if the numbers were in fact skewed and so many of these teams were in a far better position financially. fehr would be driving that home with the media.

imo, negotiations would be going even worse, if that's possible

The NFL and NBA had record revenue and the players had to move.
- Jacob582

interestingly though, there was actual strong evidence in the NBA lockout (unlike the NFL and NHL lockouts) that the system WAS broken and favored the players too much, and yet they managed to reach a deal in time with the help of mediation anyway

Nope just anti-Fehr bias right now.
- Jacob582

Likewise.

i didnt
i feel shame..

- hugefemale dog77

I don't get why they won't consider mediation, the NFL and NBA did it and it worked, and those lockouts had far more money involved. Hell, mediation started EARLY in those processes.
- S Kaspar Rollins

it implies that one, or both sides, are just a standstill but are desperate to get it done..
and completely willing to give on some major issues...

i dont think either are the case

It's the best number out there, but at the end of the day it is still an educated guess.

What I do find telling, however, is that the NHLPA hasn't gone to great lengths to discredit the numbers. Keep in mind; they have the actual financials of each and every team.

If every team was making money, the NHLPA would have let us know that by now.

But getting back to your original question: yeah, it's a fun info-graphic by Forbes. It isn't a tax return.
- Atomic Wedgie

I beleive that there is definitely some teams that are having financial difficulties.

it implies that one, or both sides, are just a standstill but are desperate to get it done..
and completely willing to give on some major issues...

i dont think either are the case
- hugefemale dog77

good point, I think both the NHL and NHLPA have had a deadline mentality from the beginning - either a deal gets done at the last minute or not at all.

yes

fehr has constantly reiterated the question of why give back with these record profits.
if the numbers were in fact skewed and so many of these teams were in a far better position financially. fehr would be driving that home with the media.

imo, negotiations would be going even worse, if that's possible
- hugefemale dog77

Not record profits, but record revenue. Let's keep in mind that this about how to devide revenue, not profits.

I beleive that there is definitely some teams that are having financial difficulties.
- MJL

how much this is a prime motivation in the NHL's tactics is another question though. i guess some small-market teams are among the hardliners but I don't think all of them necessarily favor this specific approach

Not record profits, but record revenue. Let's keep in mind that this about how to devide revenue, not profits.
- MJL

mistype.

ur a champion at arguing semantics, without actually saying anything.

either way, it really has no bearing on the point of my post. that wasnt the focal point

I havent looked at the Broward County document, so I'll take you at your word on that. But would also agree that there is too much unknown about the true financial pictures of teams to rely on Forbes Magazine as an accurate source?
- MJL

The accuracy of the Forbes article is questionable at best. We have no idea what was or wasn't included in those figures

mistype.

ur a champion at arguing semantics, without actually saying anything.

either way, it really has no bearing on the point of my post. that wasnt the focal point
- hugefemale dog77

The difference between revenue and profit is light years away from being semantics. It is a drastic difference. And it did have a bearing on your post in my opinion. That they are talking about dividing revenue versus profits is a key point to consider. Alot of people, not saying you do, misunderstand that.

The accuracy of the Forbes article is questionable at best. We have no idea what was or wasn't included in those figures
- uf1910

I agree. But many use it as a basis for forming an opinion on whose side to back.

The difference between revenue and profit is light years away from being semantics. It is a drastic difference. And it did have a bearing on your post in my opinion. That they are talking about dividing revenue versus profits is a key point to consider. Alot of people, not saying you do, misunderstand that.
- MJL

no, it didnt..at all

if the nhl's true NUMBERS, (profits, revenues, losses, expenditures etc etc) that the union has access to, were vastly different then what they are claiming, the union would make this front and center. not only with the media while attempting to win the PR battle, but also with negotiations. as they've attempted to do with far lesser issues....

imo, if this was in fact the case, negotiations would be going even worse than they presently are. or at least they'd be much furthur apart