The NHL has basically said "If you don't agree to this, this, and this, no deal". So why make a proposal that will be shot down in under ten minutes like they were the last time? That's disrespectful and completely obnoxious. Frank the owners. They are the ones who are saying 'let's take a two week break'. How can you blame the PA for that?
- triggermartin

Have you been paying any attention to the negotiations? Fehr has been a complete jack ass since day one. Using stall tactics, leaving talks and coming back claiming he forgot something, making owners and players wait for 6 hours because he didn't show up when he said he would, making no real offers or counter offers in good faith, etc etc...

Even former players are calling his tactics bush league. If anyone has been disrespecting the process, it's been Fehr.

I beleive that there is going to be a Season.
- MJL

Then the players will have to give in.

I think what you and the players (maybe those two are one in the same) are fogetting is the CBA as we knew it is gone. Negotiating back to the old system of 57% as the days pass are further and further from the reality that exists today. If players really believe that if they wait longer to settle they will get a better deal, they quite simply are delusional. As todays reality sets in, the CBA which expired in 2012 based on revenues from the previous year, will become less and less realistic. Right now both the players and owners are negotiating back to the old CBA. If this season is lost, it is quite possible that 50/50 won't cut it for the owners. That number may drop to give owners more of a share of revenue. And players who had 3 years left on contracts in Sept 2012 will now have 2 year left on that same contract... in SEPT 2013. Simple math states they lost 33%. The question is then simple.... IS IT WORTH IT?? Every paycheque that goes by is money that you will never recover. I get that players are p@ssed. I get that owners need a deal that protect them from themselves. This does include 50/50, it does include length of contracts, it does include free agency, it does include arbitation, it does include front loaded deals. Nobody will argue that the owners made this mess. I think deep down inside they know at well. It doesn't change the fact that the owners of a business will more times than not win.
- TSTER

Okay I'll admit it, I'm Sidney Crosby! You got me!

But seriously, evidence suggests that if the players do wait, they will get a better deal. Because that is what has happened so far. Nobody is forgetting that the last CBA is no longer in effect. And your dealing in hypotheticals. There won't be a deal where the players accept less then 50/50. If the Owners had that power, or were willing to sit out the Season to get that. They would have never offered the revised Make Whole deal.

Then the players will have to give in.
- whipper334

Correction, both sides will have to give in.

The players have decided that they're willing to lose salary to get the deal they want.
- MJL

Once again...how smart is that? Miss out on more money than I'm going to gain by trying to hold out for a better deal?It's the stupidest logic ever!

Have you been paying any attention to the negotiations? Fehr has been a complete jack ass since day one. Using stall tactics, leaving talks and coming back claiming he forgot something, making owners and players wait for 6 hours because he didn't show up when he said he would, making no real offers or counter offers in good faith, etc etc...

Even former players are calling his tactics bush league. If anyone has been disrespecting the process, it's been Fehr.
- MnGump

And the NHL have been complete Angels. In my book if Fehr is considered a complete jackass, then he's doing his job.

That also affects the Owners. Like I said, both sides are losing here.

- MJL

Not really. Both sides do lose if the season is cancelled but I highly doubt the players understand the long term ramifications. The owners are in this for the long term. They are thinking 5-10 years down the road. I'd be surprised if most of the players think beyond next season.

Once again...how smart is that? Miss out on more money than I'm going to gain by trying to hold out for a better deal?It's the stupidest logic ever!
- Iggysbff

That remains to be seen. Once again, both sides have already lost in this thing.

And the NHL have been complete Angels. In my book if Fehr is considered a complete jackass, then he's doing his job.
- MJL

Sometimes a jackass is just a jackass.

Not really. Both sides do lose if the season is cancelled but I highly doubt the players understand the long term ramifications. The owners are in this for the long term. They are thinking 5-10 years down the road. I'd be surprised if most of the players think beyond next season.
- Flyers_01

The long term ramifications are the same for players and Owners. Understand that the PA is just not in this for right now.

Correction, both sides will have to give in.
- MJL

This.

Although I believe the players will have to give in first. Not more or less, but first -- at least from this current impasse.

Thats not what that is showing. Neither one made all of their bonuses.
- Iggysbff

Absolutely that is what it is showing. Take your argument to Capgeek.

This.

Although I believe the players will have to give in first. Not more or less, but first -- at least from this current impasse.
- Travis Yost

You might be right. I think the players need to take up the League's offer to come in and negotiate the contract issues.

Sometimes a jackass is just a jackass.
- Flyers_01

fans want their hockey so it's understandable that they think Fehr is a jackass. Reality is that both sides have done their share of living up to that moniker.

owners need to be like rick on pawn stars...

rick: what were you hoping to get out of it?

pawner: i dunno, maybe 200?

rick: no way, I can' t go any higher than $75.

pawner: come on, that's too low. can you do $150?

rick: no. how's $50 sound?

pawner: ok, i'll take $75

Absolutely that is what it is showing. Take your argument to Capgeek.
- MJL

Know your facts. I would have to go back and dig it up but I think it was an Edmonton Journal article that went through Halls bonuses and showed which ones he made and didnt.

You seem to be pretty sure of yourself there champ..... How would you know who Ek talks too? Pretty sure Ek is honest about who he talks too


- Flyers_1488

Ek is that you bro?

Know your facts. I would have to go back and dig it up but I think it was an Edmonton Journal article that went through Halls bonuses and showed which ones he made and didnt.
- Iggysbff

Like I said, tell Capgeek they are wrong.

I don't buy into that it's a hobby for the owners hypothesis that is prevalent here on Hockeybuzz. The NHL is a big time multi billion dollar business. It is a serious business for the Owner's, not a hobby. If that was true, then why are we in a lockout?
- MJL

I don't doubt that for some of the owners, the NHL is their main business, but I'd be willing to bet that for the majority of them the NHL is merely a distraction from where they make their real money. That being said whether I'm right or wrong, they're still businessmen first and foremost and they aren't in any business venture to lose money, hence the lockout.

How can you not agree with my last sentence? That is what happened. The League came back with a better offer then the previous one. So what evidence is that the longer the Owners wait them out, the more reasonable and willing the PA will become?

I don't think either side here is dumb. We have 2 very shrewd negotiators here. That's part of the problem.

I agree neither side is dumb, but I think the owners know they still need to up the ante a little here and there in order to push things in the right direction. Which is why they came back with the make whole offer. Don't get me wrong, I think the owners want to get things resolved, but I still think they are holding all the cards in the way of leverage and are willing to wait out the PA as long as it takes.

I don't think they'd be forcing a 2 week break if there wasn't at least a modicum of validity to that notion.

Eklund: NHL Putting the Ball in Fehr's Hands for Two Weeks Will Be Key to End.
- Eklund

I guess I more or less agree with your take. You know, I think I could really grow to enjoy hating Fehr just as much as I enjoy hating Bettman.

And the NHL have been complete Angels. In my book if Fehr is considered a complete jackass, then he's doing his job.
- MJL

Yup. It's worth noting that for all the complaining the NHL has done, Fehr HAS actually gotten them to negotiate against themselves, and give concessions. You can argue that maybe he's overplaying his hand right now but I still think there's an element of rationality to this game of chicken he's playing (even if it is motivated entirely by greed.)

NHL certainly didn't do themselves any favors starting out with the ridiculous, insulting offer they did. I really believe that had they not been so adamant to declare war on the players (which that offer amounted to) things would be far different right now, hell the CBA might have been resolved before September 15.

Yup. It's worth noting that for all the complaining the NHL has done, Fehr HAS actually gotten them to negotiate against themselves, and give concessions. You can argue that maybe he's overplaying his hand right now but I still think there's an element of rationality to this game of chicken he's playing (even if it is motivated entirely by greed.)

NHL certainly didn't do themselves any favors starting out with the ridiculous, insulting offer they did. I really believe that had they not been so adamant to declare war on the players (which that offer amounted to) things would be far different right now, hell the CBA might have been resolved before September 15.
- S Kaspar Rollins

That is true, 43% was a complete insult to the PA and Bettman did look like quite an ass himself with that nonsense. That being said, that's a pretty common negotiating tactic, start in the basement and work your way up. But as you eluded to, obviously a complete waste of everyones time knowing full well that offer was going to be laughed at...

Let's take some more time off so that we can lose even more potential games. I wish somebody could lock those greedy pigs in one room and keep them there until they sign a deal. Seems the only way to go.

That is true, 43% was a complete insult to the PA and Bettman did look like quite an ass himself with that nonsense. That being said, that's a pretty common negotiating tactic, start in the basement and work your way up.
- MnGump

I don't even know if that was the "basement" because nothing there was even close to what would be realistic to work off of. I think the other stuff in that offer might have been more offensive than the 43% to the players - such as the ludicrous suggestion of restricting free agency to 10 years service (which I don't think has come up since) etc. It reminds me of the opening moves in the NFL lockout, where Goodell revealed the real motives right away by trying to push for an 18 game season.

In any case, by all accounts that offer really pissed off the players and reinforced their unity, so it was clearly a miscalculation of some sort by the NHL.