And why would a pro-player guy like you want to put artificial salary restrictions on rookies? Why should veterans and free agents get that money?

Why should a #1 overall pick be forced to make less money than Jody Shelley?
- Atomic Wedgie

WHOA WHOA WHOA No need to bring in Jody Shelley to this.... He is my fav player

Let's take some more time off so that we can lose even more potential games. I wish somebody could lock those greedy pigs in one room and keep them there until they sign a deal. Seems the only way to go.
- Aliaksandrhn

I don't get why they won't consider mediation, the NFL and NBA did it and it worked, and those lockouts had far more money involved. Hell, mediation started EARLY in those processes.

Anyone who still takes the NHL's point of view at face value, this is a MUST READ: http://blogs.edmontonjour...ng-teams-that-lose-money/

In sum, the Florida Panthers - the Panthers - make money and demonstrate how HRR and its derivative "losses" are completely bogus numbers.

I don't get why they won't consider mediation, the NFL and NBA did it and it worked, and those lockouts had far more money involved. Hell, mediation started EARLY in those processes.
- S Kaspar Rollins

In NBA and NFL there was a great preassure from the outside on both sides to make a deal. Losing a lot of meaningful games, let alone the entire season, was simply not an option. In our case, there's absolutely no pressure to get something done. The greedy pigs know that the fans will be back and each side is determined to stay the course. It's not about us, it's about there millions. The greedy pigs treat us like a flock of sheep (see 2005). There's no mediation because there's no urgency to get the deal. Proving your point and getting more millions is more important than playing the game.

In NBA and NFL there was a great preassure from the outside on both sides to make a deal. Losing a lot of meaningful games, let alone the entire season, was simply not an option. In our case, there's absolutely no pressure to get something done. The greedy pigs know that the fans will be back and each side is determined to stay the course. It's not about us, it's about there millions. The greedy pigs treat us like a flock of sheep (see 2005).
- Aliaksandrhn

this is a good point. Plus I think everyone knew the NFL lockout was just so outrageously stupid that mediation HAD to happen.

I would also argue that in the NBA and NFL there was probably less union resolve, because they're much less stable employers due to less guaranteed deals (and in the NFL, none at all). I also hear far more stories of players going bankrupt quickly (because they are absolutely clueless with money) without a steady cheque, although I'm sure it happens in the NHL too.

Ek you got one problem with your Blog or whatever....
Everytime something happens thst's a complete nightmare in the process, you say I've thought for some time this might need to happen "it's all part of the game of negotiating...."
You have no idea what's going on and you just drum up hope to get your hits.(which look pretty pathetic lately)
You have an interest in the season starting ASAP for your family so why should anybody listen to your opinion. Your opinion, no matter what happens in these negotiations is that there will be a season and this just part of the process.....Just because you wish it doesn't make it true.
T

Can the players just take the deal already.... Fehr needs to be pushed aside and let someone make a deal

That is true, 43% was a complete insult to the PA and Bettman did look like quite an ass himself with that nonsense. That being said, that's a pretty common negotiating tactic, start in the basement and work your way up. But as you eluded to, obviously a complete waste of everyones time knowing full well that offer was going to be laughed at...
- MnGump

You're right. It is a common negotiating tactic. The NFL's first offer was about the same or lower.

Insult to the PA? Since when can a union feel insulted. As my college sociology prof would say: "A union can't feel anything".

Yup. It's worth noting that for all the complaining the NHL has done, Fehr HAS actually gotten them to negotiate against themselves, and give concessions. You can argue that maybe he's overplaying his hand right now but I still think there's an element of rationality to this game of chicken he's playing (even if it is motivated entirely by greed.)

NHL certainly didn't do themselves any favors starting out with the ridiculous, insulting offer they did. I really believe that had they not been so adamant to declare war on the players (which that offer amounted to) things would be far different right now, hell the CBA might have been resolved before September 15.
- S Kaspar Rollins

Were the players insulted with the offer of 43%? Who cares? They need to grow some balls then. Fehr wants the players to be pissed off to gain more power. He could have easily told the players that's just a common negotiating tactic, instead of throwing gasoline on the fire.

The NBA and NFL negotiations took a similar path.

You are right, though that Fehr has gotten the NHL to negotiate against themselves. It seems like Bettman should have seen this coming, if they knew the book on Fehr, and started with a different tactic. I think that is why they tried to change things up, notably these two times:
1. When they made their second proposal in a row and released it to the public (their first 50/50 deal)
2. Now, like Ek says, when Bettman proposed the 2 week silence.

Yup. It's worth noting that for all the complaining the NHL has done, Fehr HAS actually gotten them to negotiate against themselves, and give concessions. You can argue that maybe he's overplaying his hand right now but I still think there's an element of rationality to this game of chicken he's playing (even if it is motivated entirely by greed.)

NHL certainly didn't do themselves any favors starting out with the ridiculous, insulting offer they did. I really believe that had they not been so adamant to declare war on the players (which that offer amounted to) things would be far different right now, hell the CBA might have been resolved before September 15.
- S Kaspar Rollins

No question about it. And it can be also said that if the NHL had started with their original Make Whole offer, we might be playing by now. But to be fair, the flip side is that if the PA had started negotiations sooner, we might be playhing now. So both sides share in the blame.

Ek - Thanks for your continued information. I guess I'm depressed that my beloved sport has become a political game. I can understand arguing over positions when there's not enough money, but now to risk a season when there's too much money? I guess hockey's becoming a sport that plays for 6 years, gaining fans, supporters, and advertisers, then takes a year off to lose them all...

Anyone who still takes the NHL's point of view at face value, this is a MUST READ: http://blogs.edmontonjour...ng-teams-that-lose-money/

In sum, the Florida Panthers - the Panthers - make money and demonstrate how HRR and its derivative "losses" are completely bogus numbers.
- S Kaspar Rollins

You mean that Forbes Magazine may not be accurate? I'm shocked!

In NBA and NFL there was a great preassure from the outside on both sides to make a deal. Losing a lot of meaningful games, let alone the entire season, was simply not an option. In our case, there's absolutely no pressure to get something done. The greedy pigs know that the fans will be back and each side is determined to stay the course. It's not about us, it's about there millions. The greedy pigs treat us like a flock of sheep (see 2005). There's no mediation because there's no urgency to get the deal. Proving your point and getting more millions is more important than playing the game.
- Aliaksandrhn

I disagree that there's no pressure. I think there is definitely pressure on the League to get a deal done.

Were the players insulted with the offer of 43%? Who cares? They need to grow some balls then. Fehr wants the players to be pissed off to gain more power. He could have easily told the players that's just a common negotiating tactic, instead of throwing gasoline on the fire.

The NBA and NFL negotiations took a similar path.

You are right, though that Fehr has gotten the NHL to negotiate against themselves. It seems like Bettman should have seen this coming, if they knew the book on Fehr, and started with a different tactic. I think that is why they tried to change things up, notably these two times:
1. When they made their second proposal in a row and released it to the public (their first 50/50 deal)
2. Now, like Ek says, when Bettman proposed the 2 week silence.
- Jacob582

Maybe that is what Fehr told the players behind closed doors.

Can the players just take the deal already.... Fehr needs to be pushed aside and let someone make a deal
- senstroll

Right, he should be 'pushed aside' just because YOU think they should make a deal. Egocentric or what.

You're right. It is a common negotiating tactic. The NFL's first offer was about the same or lower.

Insult to the PA? Since when can a union feel insulted. As my college sociology prof would say: "A union can't feel anything".
- Jacob582

Am I detecting a hint of anti-union bias...?

Right, he should be 'pushed aside' just because YOU think they should make a deal. Egocentric or what.
- triggermartin

I think everyone thinks they should make a deal..... except you maybe?

Did they just take 2 weeks off from talks???

I think everyone thinks they should make a deal..... except you maybe?
- senstroll

Yes, I do too. But I place far more onus on the owner's responsibility to move to get a deal done than I do on the players union than you obviously do. The league have had record revenue numbers for seven years. THEY, not the players, need to move to get this thing done.

Did they just take 2 weeks off from talks???
- Flyers_1488

I'm a little jealous, actually.

Wouldn't it be great to be right at crunch time, hectic deadlines, make or break projects, and then just as the pressure was about to blow your head off, you just tell everyone you are going to Cancun for two weeks?

Sweeeet.

I'm a little jealous, actually.

Wouldn't it be great to be right at crunch time, hectic deadlines, make or break projects, and then just as the pressure was about to blow your head off, you just tell everyone you are going to Cancun for two weeks?

Sweeeet.
- Atomic Wedgie

Yeah Right!!

I would love to have my feet in the sand with my wife by myside but NOPE i have to finsh this project blah blah blah blah

Yes, I do too. But I place far more onus on the owner's responsibility to move to get a deal done than I do on the players union than you obviously do. The league have had record revenue numbers for seven years. THEY, not the players, need to move to get this thing done.
- triggermartin

I could care less who moves what way... It makes no difference to me if a Billionaire owner makes a little more or Sidney crosby makes 10 million or 9.5 ... I am not sure why it matters to you either what way it swings.

I want to watch hockey, not discuss who needs to bend over more.

I just know that the players will have to take what is given in order for us to see hockey this season. Fehr is great a ruining seasons.

Last lockout the Owners "Won" by all accounts, but the players got much much richer. Can you find me one quote where a player involved in the last lockout said it was a good thing they lost the season? That it was worth the battle? Probably not. The same will happen this time, and the players will still end up richer than before

I could care less who moves what way... It makes no difference to me if a Billionaire owner makes a little more or Sidney crosby makes 10 million or 9.5 ... I am not sure why it matters to you either what way it swings.

I want to watch hockey, not discuss who needs to bend over more.

I just know that the players will have to take what is given in order for us to see hockey this season. Fehr is great a ruining seasons.

Last lockout the Owners "Won" by all accounts, but the players got much much richer. Can you find me one quote where a player involved in the last lockout said it was a good thing they lost the season? That it was worth the battle? Probably not. The same will happen this time, and the players will still end up richer than before
- senstroll

I've been saying that since the beginning. If Fehr was smart, he would have told the players this:

I'm going to be a tough S.O.B. until the day before training camp opens, and then we will sign the best deal we can get on that day.

It may look like we are giving up a lot, but don't worry; I guaran-effing-tee that the owners will figure out a way to eff themselves over.

They do it every time.

Trust me.

very good article.

I listen to the players speak. I'm very passionate about hockey, but I think this time they went too far. If I was owner, I think I wouldn't mind not making a few more millions and let a bunch of employees also not make their millions. For 3-4 years. '' You fold you employee'' The fact they have no class must irritate the owners. 6:30 hours late??? Seriously, who can accept this? This is shocking. Imagine waiting 6 hours, and the stress of waiting, just to have many thoughts runnning meanwhile, even supposing they are using this tactic to get the other party tired before entering the room etc.. So many things can enter the owners minds during that time, and they are not thinking posetively about the player that's for sure the more time is they keep them waiting.

How can Ian White disrespect his boss? Does he realizes he gets hundreds of thousands playing major league hockey? Shouldn't he shut up? Who is he anyways? What team he plays again? Devils? It is he that is dumb for saying that. Now Bettman and the owners have a good reason to say go to hell.

Anyone who still takes the NHL's point of view at face value, this is a MUST READ: http://blogs.edmontonjour...ng-teams-that-lose-money/

In sum, the Florida Panthers - the Panthers - make money and demonstrate how HRR and its derivative "losses" are completely bogus numbers.
- S Kaspar Rollins

I took a quick peek at the Broward County document - there isn't enough information there to be able to make the conclusions that the author of the article makes - there's too much funny stuff going on.

From 2004 to 2005 (fiscal years, so more or less the same as hockey seasons) there is a dip in revenues of about $7 million. But only a dip in expenses of about $1 million. That doesn't make sense.

And then from 2005 to 2006, there's a jump in revenues of about $16.5 million, but a jump in operating expenses of about $8.5 million.

Once again, that doesn't make sense.

I have no idea about the accounting practices of Florida, but I do know enough to say that there is something going on there beyond the impact of the lockout.

But ultimately, you can't make any conclusions. There's just too much unknown.