Here is what it says. The 2 main points that the article made, which I posted for you remain the same.

As Erin Bolen points out at SBNation, the audit by Broward County is limited to financial date for the Arena Operating Company, the division of Sunrise Sports & Entertainment.

This doesn’t shift the two basic points of this piece highlighted in bold. The AOC is incredibly profitable, and SSE only gets to run it because of the Panthers, so the Panthers still serve as a gateway. Additionally, a 90% drop in total AOC profitability in a lockout year remains highly interesting when the number of hockey events should only represent roughly one-third of their total revenue.

However, with that said the above piece at times confuses the financial data for the arena operating company with the financial data for Sunrise Sports and Entertainment, due to my misreading portions of the audit. That’s an important distinction to make, and one that I failed to make in my reading of the audit.
- MJL

So, the author says its an important distinction, but you disagree. Great.

Yes, its set up that way because the running of a hockey team, and the running of a large venue space, are two very distinctly different businesses, and should logically be two seperate entities. I doubt there are many teams that don't have it set up that way.
- prock

It's set up that way to mask profits. You ignore the fact of how during the lockout, it showed how Florida wasn't the financial drag it's supposed to be.

So, the author says its an important distinction, but you disagree. Great.
- prock

I didn't say anywhere that I disagree that it's an important distinction.

I get the sacrcasm...but seriously, there isn't even a clear definition of what hockey related revenue is... without that as a starting point... how can any of this be taking seriously.

and btw... lots of large contracts are negotiated based on scribbled back of the napkin type paperwork... but it requires trust to get to that point... and because Bettman and Fehr in both intermediaries and nothing more... this won't go anywhere until a real leader emerges from both sides.
- BorjeFan4Ever

I am not aware of the state of the HRR definition? I was unaware that that definition is still up in the air?

I agree on the napkin thing, wholeheartedly. I also agree that it takes trust. The part where I disagree is that you do not make key members of the board of governors wait for hours, multiple times, and pull crap like single-sheet offers...

and if you DO pull stunts like that, you don't get to cry about the owners dismissing the offers in 10 minutes. As I said right after it happened, I think the owners spent 8 minutes longer than they needed to under those circumstances. How is it even possible that Fehr even believes this is acceptable behavior.

... you NAILED it with the trust thing though. That is the single biggest issue on both sides of this, well, trust and monstrous egos.

You seem to know quite a bit... so how many players are receiving bonuses? How many players are playing overseas? Maybe 200 tops. What percentage is that of total NHL players? And what type of money are they making. Probably not enough to keep up the weekly botox injections into the puck bunny wives lips. If the players don't go broke first, their divorce rates will increase as all their wives move on to baseball and football players who are making the money that they are used to spending.
- TSTER

200 players receiving paychecks is quite different from the players are receiving nothing. You really think the players are in danger of going broke from missing 3 paychecks? Your point on botox and divorce rates going up is really relevant here.

I am not aware of the state of the HRR definition? I was unaware that that definition is still up in the air?

I agree on the napkin thing, wholeheartedly. I also agree that it takes trust. The part where I disagree is that you do not make key members of the board of governors wait for hours, multiple times, and pull crap like single-sheet offers...

and if you DO pull stunts like that, you don't get to cry about the owners dismissing the offers in 10 minutes. As I said right after it happened, I think the owners spent 8 minutes longer than they needed to under those circumstances. How is it even possible that Fehr even believes this is acceptable behavior.

... you NAILED it with the trust thing though. That is the single biggest issue on both sides of this, well, trust and monstrous egos.
- Aetherial

In a negotiation, you get to do whatever you want to do. Whatever you think is the best move for your side!

And if trust and monstrous egos is the single biggest issue on both sides of this. Well then there must be behavior that you don't agree with on the Owner's side then also.

It's set up that way to mask profits. You ignore the fact of how during the lockout, it showed how Florida wasn't the financial drag it's supposed to be.
- MJL

Prove this.

Prove your point about the numbers during the lockout.

Don't just say your opinion or assumption or "common sense" makes it true.

First of all, you have no idea of all the variables contributing to the situation.

More importantly, this is the EXACT thing you do to everyone on this board who provides a logical arguement against your position.

So, prove your point... don't make assumptions, provide evidence.

In a negotiation, you get to do whatever you want to do. Whatever you think is the best move for your side!
- MJL

Read paragraph 3 of what I posted until you understand it.

Prove this.

Prove your point about the numbers during the lockout.

Don't just say your opinion or assumption or "common sense" makes it true.

First of all, you have no idea of all the variables contributing to the situation.

More importantly, this is the EXACT thing you do to everyone on this board who provides a logical arguement against your position.

So, prove your point... don't make assumptions, provide evidence.
- Aetherial

I provided what I'm basing my opinion on already. The article on Florida.

http://blogs.edmontonjour...ng-teams-that-lose-money/

Read paragraph 3 of what I posted until you understand it.
- Aetherial

I read it already. What I understood from it is that you don't understand what is going on, imo.


And if trust and monstrous egos is the single biggest issue on both sides of this. Well then there must be behavior that you don't agree with on the Owner's side then also.

It's set up that way to mask profits. You ignore the fact of how during the lockout, it showed how Florida wasn't the financial drag it's supposed to be.
- MJL

Did the Owners and PA agree on what is and what is not HRR as part of the EXPIRED CBA negotiation?

Was the PA allowed to review the HRR as part of the escrow process?

Has the PA formally challenged the HRR of the Florida Panthers?


Answer these questions. THEN explain what your point is. You are arguing in circles and conjecture again because facts are becoming inconvenient for you, again.

The players can go (frank) themselves, and so too can the owners.


On a brighter note going to London on Friday to watch a junior game.

Did the Owners and PA agree on what is and what is not HRR as part of the EXPIRED CBA negotiation?

Was the PA allowed to review the HRR as part of the escrow process?

Has the PA formally challenged the HRR of the Florida Panthers?


Answer these questions. THEN explain what your point is. You are arguing in circles and conjecture again because facts are becoming inconvenient for you, again.
- Aetherial

I don't know if the PA formally challenged anything, and yes, to my knowledge the PA was allowed to see the financials of the teams. My point was very simple. I don't believe prock's statement that the NHL is making a lot of revenue, but very little profit, is accurate, imo.

And prock didn't provide any evidence to back that statement up. And you didn't challenge him to do so. Which is a clear indicator of what your true motive is here. Not going to happen.

If there was any question as to who is running these negotiations it has become apparent the players are in control here...
- Eklund

Bahahahahahahahahaha.

Bettman wants to take a two week vacation and the players are running to the bargaining table.

Yes, the players are in complete control.

What on earth did they think would happen when the hired Donald Freakin' Fehr?

200 players receiving paychecks is quite different from the players are receiving nothing. You really think the players are in danger of going broke from missing 3 paychecks? Your point on botox and divorce rates going up is really relevant here.
- MJL

My point is 700 players, probably 500 of them are not making anywhere close to what they are used to. The 200 that may be playing overseas are not making anywhere close to what they are able to make by playing in the NHL. Yet NHL players are still negotiating from a CBA which expired 2 months ago. Can't believe I even said negotiating since they haven't done that to date. I will bet your wifes next botox injection that the players will sooner a later give in to the owners.

- Flyfreaky

I read it already. What I understood from it is that you don't understand what is going on, imo.


And if trust and monstrous egos is the single biggest issue on both sides of this. Well then there must be behavior that you don't agree with on the Owner's side then also.
- MJL

yeah I have neeevvvveeeerrrr cirticized the owners.

You, yourself have responded to posts of mine that have included criticism of the owners, on more than one occasion.

I am the first person that I am aware of, on this board, to point out that both the players and the owners had KEY lies in their claiming of "50/50" offers. I did this shortly after the 2-page/3-offer debacle.

While I give you credit for being one of the few PA sympathizers to admit the players are to blame for delaying the start of negotiations so long, you need to also remember that my support of the owners' position has not blinded me to their own faults in this.

The players should step up by saying they don't want to be in a union anymore. They would be working and earning a paycheck if they did not have to join that union.

FWIW, from Dreger: Not to be viewed as weakness in any way, however, after last night there's a seems to be a sense of urgency coming from the players.

- glove_was_stuck

When is season 3 starting......screw hockey

My point is 700 players, probably 500 of them are not making anywhere close to what they are used to. The 200 that may be playing overseas are not making anywhere close to what they are able to make by playing in the NHL. Yet NHL players are still negotiating from a CBA which expired 2 months ago. Can't believe I even said negotiating since they haven't done that to date. I will bet your wifes next botox injection that the players will sooner a later give in to the owners.
- TSTER

I disagree that the players haven't been negotiating. And I would need to know what your definition of giving into the Owners is.

FWIW, from Dreger: Not to be viewed as weakness in any way, however, after last night there's a seems to be a sense of urgency coming from the players.
- Winterland

I hate this about CBA negotiations...

It is always about "weakness" and how each side can exploit the other's weakness. You get leaders from both sides agreeing a deal will get done quickly when the time is right.

Then... they all claim they are negotiating in good faith.

NOTHING about either side is in good faith. If they truly were negotiating in good faith this would have been finalized in February of 2012.


Labour negotiations have become a joke. I am starting to think that we need new labour laws saying you have 2 weeks to make an agreement after a CBA expires. After that, you are subject to binding arbitration to being immediately.

yeah I have neeevvvveeeerrrr cirticized the owners.

You, yourself have responded to posts of mine that have included criticism of the owners, on more than one occasion.

I am the first person that I am aware of, on this board, to point out that both the players and the owners had KEY lies in their claiming of "50/50" offers. I did this shortly after the 2-page/3-offer debacle.

While I give you credit for being one of the few PA sympathizers to admit the players are to blame for delaying the start of negotiations so long, you need to also remember that my support of the owners' position has not blinded me to their own faults in this.
- Aetherial

I didn't state anywhere that you have never criticized the Owners. You definitely have on occasion. But the majority of your posts is laying criticism on the players and Fehr, imo. And the post I replied to there was biased towards the players side. Which is why I responded as I did.

I disagree that the players haven't been negotiating. And I would need to know what your definition of giving into the Owners is.
- MJL

Wow