Agreed. The better statement is that "there are revenues that teams have which have not been counted in HRR" and that's exactly correct (and was explicitly allowed).
- Irish Blues

And that contributes to the profits of a team. All prefectly legal.

The Owners own the individual teams, don't kid yourself. There's a lot of players who are getting paid. Injured players are paid, and players are getting their signing bonuses. And there are players playing overseas. So it is not true that players are getting nothing. And if you think the players are normal employees then your kidding yourself. And again I'll ask if the Owners are so smart, why are we in a lockout? Why are some teams struggling so badly!
- MJL

Because there are too many loopholes, that the owners are trying to fix, that the players don't want fixed because they have it so (frank)ing good, the players don't care about league stability, all they care about is their own bank accounts. They want to act like (frank)ing victims with 7 figure salaries then those whiney little female doges can donate their endorsement deals to HRR. I hope the NHL puts that on the table

so with no hockey to watch, I've caught up on old TV shows i enjoy. One of my favorites is Deadwood. I've come to the decision that Al Swearengen should be present at the CBA negotiations. Some examples that would make the talks at least more interesting:


1)
Seth Bullock (Fehr): You and I know how it is, Mr. Swearingen(Bettman).
Al Swearengen (Bettman): How what is?
Seth Bullock(Fehr):
- zedniksghost[stands] She gets a square shake... or I come for you.
Al Swearengen(Bettman): [stands] What if I come for you? You ready for that?
Seth Bullock(Fehr): I guess I'd better be.
Al Swearengen(Bettman): Then close your (frank)in' store, 'cause being ready for me'll take care of your wakin' hours, and you'd better have someone to hand the task off to when you close your (frank)in' eyes.
[they silently take each other's measure]
Seth Bullock(Fehr): We understand each other.

2)
E.B. Farnum(Media): And if she pries and pokes and prods me to elicit your intentions?
Al Swearengen(Bettman): Tell her I wouldn't say.
E.B. Farnum(Media): And if she asks me why you wouldn't?
Al Swearengen(Bettman): Say you're a pain in my balls that can't desist from inquiry till told to shut his (frank)ing mouth and act on the task he was asked to (frank)ing do!
E.B. Farnum(Media): Yes sir. Fine, thank you.

3)
E.B. Farnum(Daly): Hearst(Fehr)... is he Caesar? To have fights to the death for diversion, murder his workers at whim, smash passages in the (frank)ing wall? A man of less wealth would be in (frank)ing restraints!
Al Swearengen(Bettman): We are in the presence of the new.
E.B. Farnum(Daly): (frank) the (frank)ing new! Jesus Christ, Al... is it over for us here?
Al Swearengen(Bettman): Go back to the hotel, E.B(Daly).
E.B. Farnum(Daly): Save us. Think of something!
Al Swearengen(Bettman): Have I ever not?

And that is the whole point being made. Which you explained better then I have.
- MJL

You still don't get it.

Please point to the flaws the article points out in the Forbes article.

There are none.

You simply don't understand what the Broward County report is actually reporting.

You haven't even read the report (by your own admission).

What flaws?

I'm waiting...

I'm not naive at all. I see things like this set up on a daily basis, and not to mask profit, revenue, or anything of the sort. It's you that clearly has absolutely no knowledge in the area, if you're assuming that's why it's set up that way. Completely. I'm telling you, thyat if there was no cap, no reporting to the NHLPA at all, nothing based off of profit or revenue, it would almost surely still be set up this way.
- prock

That's because your arguing how different entities of a business are set up under the Corporate umbrella. And that's not what I'm arguing at all. Not even close.

Eklund: Players Rallying To Save Season. Preparing to Step Up.
- Eklund

butkus.

You still don't get it.

Please point to the flaws the article points out in the Forbes article.

There are none.

You simply don't understand what the Broward County report is actually reporting.

You haven't even read the report (by your own admission).

What flaws?

I'm waiting...
- Atomic Wedgie

I get it just fine. It's not just reporting, nor is it just opinion. That article uses a source that has actually seen the teams books. Unlike Forbes. It a simple article with simple points.

More then twice and it's called masturbating
- HuileHab

Now that was Funny

Because there are too many loopholes, that the owners are trying to fix, that the players don't want fixed because they have it so (frank)ing good, the players don't care about league stability, all they care about is their own bank accounts. They want to act like (frank)ing victims with 7 figure salaries then those whiney little female doges can donate their endorsement deals to HRR. I hope the NHL puts that on the table
- SpoiledByOil

They aren't acting like victims. Wanting to keep what you negotiated for in good faith, isn't acting like a victim. Whose fault is it that there are too many loopholes?

I don't agree that more and more evidence has piled up that Fher has no interest in negotiating. And all the evidence you need is that his tactics, whether you like them or not, got the people he works for a better deal on Make Whole then the previous one. Which was the result of negotiating. Fehr is a proven and successful negotiator.

I'm on record multiple times agreeing that the player can no longer have 57% of revenue and that 50/50 is fair. So why would we argue about that? Maybe your far more focused on the poster instead of the content to realize that I've stated that umpteen times.


Honestly, far too much wieght is place on the players comments. Those really couldn't be more irrelvant in my opinion.
I think if you truly see both sides, the content of a posters posts would be more towards the middle then consistently on the Owners side. But most of your posts are more geared towards who the poster is then the actual content, imo.
- MJL

Each of these has been discussed and debated and you run away at the end of it all and waste everyone's time.

The only exception might be player's comments, which is not worth discussing. The players commenting have made idiots of themselves and only inflamed the trust and ego problems. You can disagree. I don't care.

When is season 3 starting......screw hockey
- Alexzanki

+1

They aren't acting like victims. Wanting to keep what you negotiated for in good faith, isn't acting like a victim. Whose fault is it that there are too many loopholes?
- MJL

Owners I'm guessing or Lawyers!!

I get it just fine. It's not just reporting, nor is it just opinion. That article uses a source that has actually seen the teams books. Unlike Forbes. It a simple article with simple points.
- MJL

And - once again - you would be 100% wrong. Just flat-out, refuse to grasp a simple concept that is slapping you in the face wrong.

Broward County has not seen the Florida Panthers' books.

Just like the original author, you can't grasp the fact that the company operating the arena is not the Florida Panthers.

Starting to get the point?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

Each of these has been discussed and debated and you run away at the end of it all and waste everyone's time.

The only exception might be player's comments, which is not worth discussing. The players commenting have made idiots of themselves and only inflamed the trust and ego problems. You can disagree. I don't care.
- Aetherial

I don't agree with a lot of the players comments. But I find them to be irrelevant to the process. For them not worth discussing, you sure bring them up a lot. I don't run away from anything. You should know that by now.

And - once again - you would be 100% wrong. Just flat-out, refuse to grasp a simple concept that is slapping you in the face wrong.

Broward County has not seen the Florida Panthers' books.

Just like the original author, you can't grasp the fact that the company operating the arena is not the Florida Panthers.

Starting to get the point?

Yeah, I didn't think so.
- Atomic Wedgie

Clearly, you haven't gotten the point of that article in my opinion. So I'll just agree to disagree.

That's not what I said at all. That's just what you think I said. And not understanding the point.

Here's the bottom line. And I'll state it again. I don't believe that your statement that the NHL is making a lot of revenue but little profit, is accurate, imo
- MJL

That's 100% precisely what you said.

No, because no such article exists. The article you're referring to is not referring to Florida Panthers profit. Its not even referring to the company that owns the Florida Panthers. Its referring to the parent company of THAT company, the company set up to run the arena. Essentially, what you're looking at goes WAY beyond hockey games.
- prock

I’m making the point that it’s the company set up to run the arena, not the Florida Panthers, that the article is talking about. It’s quite clear that’s what I’m saying.

And who does that money go to? The same place.
- MJL

How should I interpret the above statement, which was a direct response to my post above, to mean anything other than it doesn’t matter that the article is looking at the profits of the company set up to operate the arena, not the Florida Panthers hockey team? What other interpretation is there of what you said? Answer – there is none.

Each of these has been discussed and debated and you run away at the end of it all and waste everyone's time.

The only exception might be player's comments, which is not worth discussing. The players commenting have made idiots of themselves and only inflamed the trust and ego problems. You can disagree. I don't care.
- Aetherial

As much as it pains me to agree with MJL, I'm going to side with him on this one: Ian White and Versteeg are amusing distractions, but they have no impact whatsoever on the actual negotiations.

I get it just fine. It's not just reporting, nor is it just opinion. That article uses a source that has actually seen the teams books. Unlike Forbes. It a simple article with simple points.
- MJL

... that tries to address complex issues and ignores other simple things like the PA being a party to HRR rules. The PA being able to audit the books etc.

I think I will trust in the FACTS that the PA was party to establishing the rules for HRR determination and that they are also entitled to their own audits. Yet, we have never once even heard a whisper of formal objection on those points.

... but YOU object, based on a sports writer's blog and your own interpretation of a county audit... so you must be right.

That's because your arguing how different entities of a business are set up under the Corporate umbrella. And that's not what I'm arguing at all. Not even close.
- MJL

Youve flat out stated that the reason for doing so is to mask profit. Which is just a plain old retarded assumption. Period. The only person that would ever argue that is one that has never, ever, ever, in a million years, ever looked into the books of a business even a fraction of the size of the companies/teams we're looking at.

Clearly, you haven't gotten the point of that article in my opinion. So I'll just agree to disagree.
- MJL

No, not so fast.

You stated that Broward County has seen the Florida Panthers' books.

True or not true?

It's OK to admit you are wrong.

Clearly, you haven't gotten the point of that article in my opinion. So I'll just agree to disagree.
- MJL

Solid 4 hours you've put in here.

Earned yourself a break, your back must be sore.

And - once again - you would be 100% wrong. Just flat-out, refuse to grasp a simple concept that is slapping you in the face wrong.

Broward County has not seen the Florida Panthers' books.

Just like the original author, you can't grasp the fact that the company operating the arena is not the Florida Panthers.

Starting to get the point?

Yeah, I didn't think so.
- Atomic Wedgie

The article 100% blatantly states that.

Solid 4 hours you've put in here.

Earned yourself a break, your back must be sore.
- robin_steele264

When you spend that much time shoveling.....

As much as it pains me to agree with MJL, I'm going to side with him on this one: Ian White and Versteeg are amusing distractions, but they have no impact whatsoever on the actual negotiations.
- Atomic Wedgie

I believe a lot of the issues here are trust-based and ego-based.
I believe that the player's comments cannot be so easily dismissed as harmless.

When you are a governor on the fence about how much you want to give in, I agree that your choice is 99% financial and rational... but there is ALWAYS the Ego part. Not to mention Bettman's own actions and opinions almost certainly have a lot of influence. We know he has a thick skin, but I can easily imagine that the player's comments do some damage to his willingness to be open minded and listen to the PA; not as much damage as Fehr's antics mind you.

Bottom line; it isn't helping, and it is most definitely helping to give people a bad taste in their mouths about the PA.