You know I have to think they just talk semantics. They are probably arguing like my wife and I where we start with a real problem and end up arguing over whether I said "Our House" or "My house" in the middle of making a point.
- mayorofangrytown

This is exactly what I envision

You know I have to think they just talk semantics. They are probably arguing like my wife and I where we start with a real problem and end up arguing over whether I said "Our House" or "My house" in the middle of making a point.
- mayorofangrytown

But who's going to be the man in this scenario and admit defeat?

Bettman uses the competitive balance argument because the PR folks at Frank Luntz's place told him that a simple cash grab turned off fans. Like me.

There's no reason for the current work stoppage out side of a cash grab. That's why I'm far more apathetic than angry. I don't side with either the owners or players. Neither side is negotiating to get a good, fair, long term deal in place. They're battling to win the PR war.
- Jsaquella

Buccigross nails it...

http://espn.go.com/nhl/st...-tainted-league-eyes-fans

Buccigross nails it...

http://espn.go.com/nhl/st...-tainted-league-eyes-fans
- tangent_man

Great piece.

Great piece.
- canadianpenfan

Loved this one -

It's almost comical that players and owners, and you the fan, are relying on two men with not one hockey cell in their body to determine your fate.

Loved this one -

It's almost comical that players and owners, and you the fan, are relying on two men with not one hockey cell in their body to determine your fate.
- tangent_man

It's so true, that article is littered with good lines. I like these too-

Fair is what you think is fair. I know what I want and what makes me happy and don't focus on getting every last single penny coming my way

My message to the NHL player is to think long and hard about is this: The worker is ALWAYS going to have to take less. ALWAYS. Get over it. We are ALL cattle.

I like Bucci, he shoots straight.

Loved this one -

It's almost comical that players and owners, and you the fan, are relying on two men with not one hockey cell in their body to determine your fate.
- tangent_man

I'm resolved to just wait and complain. Debating what should be done is futile and reaps neither an emotional or intellectual stimulus for me. But yea Fehr +Bettman = work stoppage. I like the idea of a hockey guy representing each side.

i dunno. this league seemingly has 3-4 financial sad sack franchises every yr.
- isaiah520

Contraction isn't the answer. The League wants to grow, and grow revenue. Contraction does the opposite. And surely the PA doesn't want contraction either.

It's hard to put a fully written proposal on paper when Every written concept large or small is dismissed in it's entirety out of hand.
- mayorofangrytown

That's going to be the issue. If the PA moves on the economic issues closer to the League. They're going to want something in return. Which is to keep all the concessions on the contract issues. How likely is the League to like that? Do they walk out again?

I just don't understand how getting a checklist of the PA's desires is going to help. Is the NHL offering to submit their own list? What exactly will be done with this list? Will the NHLPA suddenly be restricted to only negotiating for things on that list? Or is it just a convenient way for to NHL to put together a list of demands they're rejected without actually doing the footwork?

Frankly, I don't see why the NHLPA would ever do this.
- BulliesPhan87

The League basically feels that is has been negotiating against itself the entire time. Fehr has done a great job using negotiating tactics to get them to do so. But I think that tactic has played out. So the League wants an actual full offer on issues to work off of. The PA has said there are 3 issues to decide. HRR/economics, contract issues, and who pays for the lockout issue. The League wants a formal offer on all 3 issues.

It was a serious question. Your answer, unfortunately was not.

It was the NHLPA who didn't want to start CBA negotiations early. You also have to realize that getting a new CBA done isn't simply a factor of X hours = NEW CBA. The NHL has never turned down an offer by the NHLPA to negotiate. The main problem is that Fehr has been stalling to put more pressure on the owners. From his showing up late to meetings to disappearing for 30 minutes at a time during negotiations. They have put in plenty of hours into negotiations, the problem is that Fehr seems determined to put as much pressure on the owners as possible before seriously negotiating.

The owners have compromised. They are contributing $211 million to the "make whole" idea the players are fighting over. While the players have agreed, in theory to a 50/50 split they have yet to accept or suggest a realistic method of it happening in the next year or 2.

There were only 3 ways to avoid the lockout : Keeping the status quo, the NHLPA not hiring Fehr, or the end of life on this planet. The owners decided the status quo wouldn't work anymore and the other 2 things didn't happen on their own so there was no way for the lockout not to happen.
- Flyers_01

I agree with all of that except for that the League has never turned down an offer from the League. They certainly have, in fact they've turned down numerous offers.

I was thinking that both sides should already have a good idea of the other's desires. If they don't, then it's no wonder why we are going nowhere in he middle of November.
- funmaster18

I think they do. It's just a stalemate. The League does not want to negotiate contract issues until the players make a better deal on HRR. The players won't make a better deal on HRR, until the League offers them concession on the contract issues. Both sides are trying to retain leverage.

Hopefully he will be fine, I would hate to see Couturier or Schenn take his place. I would like to see Couturier move to wing with G and Hartnell.
- flyerdude17

Couturier belongs at Center. He is the best checking Center and defensive forward on the team. Nor should Couturier be on the first line. There are better players suited for that spot.

Next 2 juinor games on the NHL Network (for those who care)

11/23 - Moose Jaw Warriors @ Edmonton OilKings ------ 9pm EST
11/30 - Windsor Spitfires @ Kitchener Rangers ------- 7pm EST

We can expect an answer to their request in January. If a regular company conducted business they way these two sides are they wouldn't last long. It's a joke the way this has been handled from the start.
- canadianpenfan

Mr. Bettman, the NHL owners, Donald Fehr, the NHL players, and all their corresponding advisors and lawyers have made me agree with Penguins fans.

I loathe them all.

Started negotiating earlier?

Negotiate more frequently?

Stop trying to win influence in the media and start trying to actually compromise?

Try figuring something out that would've prevented a lockout altogether?

Was that a serious question?
- canadianpenfan

1) Yes.

2) Yes!

3) I concur.

4) This made the most sense and is the most damning thing about this situation.

5)

Buccigross nails it...

http://espn.go.com/nhl/st...-tainted-league-eyes-fans
- tangent_man

Nice. I'm starting to feel the way I did about baseball in September 1994. I stopped watching the MLB in August (the 25th, IIRC) of that year. I refused to go back until 2007, when I watched the Phillies' playoff "run" against Colorado. Then I watched the 2008 season and playoffs. Then just the 2009 playoffs... and not much since.

I'll stick with all non-NHL hockey if this lockout persists. If *this* season is scrapped, I might be done with the NHL for quite some time. (frank) these greedy fools.

Next 2 juinor games on the NHL Network (for those who care)

11/23 - Moose Jaw Warriors @ Edmonton OilKings ------ 9pm EST
11/30 - Windsor Spitfires @ Kitchener Rangers ------- 7pm EST
- ob18

Saskatoon @ Victoria on the local cable station right now

Mr. Bettman, the NHL owners, Donald Fehr, the NHL players, and all their corresponding advisors and lawyers have made me agree with Penguins fans.

I loathe them all.
- Flyskippy

That's the worst.

Saskatoon @ Victoria on the local cable station right now
- canadianpenfan

not my cable

Nice. I'm starting to feel the way I did about baseball in September 1994. I stopped watching the MLB in August (the 25th, IIRC) of that year. I refused to go back until 2007, when I watched the Phillies' playoff "run" against Colorado. Then I watched the 2008 season and playoffs. Then just the 2009 playoffs... and not much since.

I'll stick with all non-NHL hockey if this lockout persists. If *this* season is scrapped, I might be done with the NHL for quite some time. (frank) these greedy fools.
- Flyskippy

We'll all be back and knowing that is the worst part. It's a helpless feeling when, as Bucci put it, you are depending on 2 nimwits without an ounce of hockey in their veins, to determine when you get to watch the game you love again. Watching juniors, college, etc is all well and good, but nothing compares to watching the best sport in the world be played by the best players in the world. We're hostages to their greed, all of them.

not my cable
- ob18

Canada is better equipped to handle a lockout.

1-0 Vic with 5 left in the first if that helps you.

Canada is better equipped to handle a lockout.

1-0 Vic with 5 left in the first if that helps you.
- canadianpenfan

Perhaps it's time to move

Perhaps it's time to move
- ob18

It's -10c and snowing.

You know, I live a 5 minute walk from where the Hitmen play and I haven't even been to a game yet. This lockout hasn't made me seek out hockey elsewhere, it's just made me apathetic.