You can feel the anger in here today. First time poster, but I read JJ's blog all the time. I am po'd to say the least. Yesterday's wild ride of deal-no deal had me spent. There are alot of people responsible for this. The owners got the salary cap and money back in '04. Then we start to see the 10 year contracts designed by teams deal writers to, yes beat the cap rules. Then last year we see the 100 million dollar contracts tossed around by teams. Greed is a funny thing. All these big deals thrown out in the off season were a sham. These teams had no intention of paying them, but they signed them and own the rights to that player. Now here we are. A deal could get done, but the human ego is incredible. I am in total hockey withdrawl, but I also see this for what it is. The sign of the times. Most of the hockey fans I know cant afford to go to a game or even buy center ice anymore. For most, times are very tough money wise. To see these guys crying over their millions.. please. They are all responsible for this. From the owners who played games with the cap rules to the dog and pony show contracts they threw out to players.. to these million dollar athletes standing behind Fehr pouting.. enough. To see guys like Crosby and others standing behind Fehr makes me mad. What do you make Syd.. 7-8 million a year!?! Let them destroy the season. This league may not recover, but let the mad little rich boys cry and cry. For they do not know what they have.. hockey is the greatest sport in the world. I still get the chills watching playoff hockey. Greatest sport in the world.. For every kid on the pond seeing this.. ignore it. Enjoy the game for what it. Not for what they have done to it!!!!
- z1990z

There's no accountin' fer taste. But welcome

I respectfully beg to differ Al. Common sense left the building when the owners locked the PA out and asked for 57%.

Donald Fehr may not be in a stronger position with his members, or in his position against the NHL than he is now.

The members as recently as today are behind him. They are not caving for a short term solution. They want a long term playing field they are happy with. And they have the leverage to make it happen. Trust me - the NHL does not even want to go down the road of even seeing if the union can decert. How many teams are literally at risk of financial collapse absent season revenue?

Players can go to Europe to pay their bills if they need to. The Coyotes can't.

What is at risk is this season for not making a deal now. The players appear united in their vision for it not to be about only this season.

I still think we see a deal soon because the owners have more at risk than the players do.
- Return of the Roar

Disagree.

Fehr fired the first shots when he told the players not to ratify a realignment plan that was good for them and the game—purely as a negotiating ploy, then refused to sit down with Bettman for months.

All a game by Donald the Dough Boy.

Im not fond of what Fehr said yesterday. Making hockey fans believe that a season is just around the corner in order to put pressure Bettman to make a deal.

Only to once again squash on the hearts of every hockey fan.

Bettman was livid. I've never seen him that mad in my life. And for good reason.

The frequent PR moves are a joke. I cant stand this anymore.

Disagree.

Fehr fired the first shots when he told the players not to ratify a realignment plan that was good for them and the game—purely as a negotiating ploy, then refused to sit down with Bettman for months.

All a game by Donald the Dough Boy.
- John Jaeckel

I am on neither side in this battle. The theatrics are fun to watch as unproductive as they are.

There was one very true statement made by the aggrieved and generally loathed actor Mr. Bettman last night - "Collective Bargaining is a very difficult process."

This article sums up a lot of how I feel, better than I could

http://es.pn/SLDGrf

Particularly this part:

"For all the sound and fury, it seems clear the question of who will come out ahead in this deal has been settled: Almost all of the meaningful movement to this point has come from the players' side. They agreed to a 50-50 revenue split, down from the 57 percent they have been receiving. They budged on contract term limits and the length of the CBA (though not far enough to satisfy the NHL; those issues are two of the remaining sticking points). They submitted, implicitly, to the idea that teams may not wind up paying in full all the contracts that their front offices offered and inked — some of them just weeks before the expiration of the last CBA.

By comparison, the NHL hasn't yielded much of anything. Some of the items on which the league considers itself to have compromised — arbitration rights and the parameters surrounding free agency, for example — are merely remaining unchanged from the last (already owner-friendly) CBA. Others aren't exactly generous: One of the league's biggest concessions to date has been its willingness to create a "make whole" fund that would help ease the transition down to a 50-50 revenue split from 57-43 — meaning the NHL has grudgingly agreed to pay some, though likely not all, of the salaries it contractually owes.

So when considering this whole unholy mess, it's worth remembering that when the NHL talks about how far it has moved toward the middle in these labor discussions, it's not really in terms relative to the status quo, but rather in comparison to the lowball-y offer the league opened negotiations with back in July."

So this is why I refuse to blame this whole mess on Fehr and the players.

Disagree.

Fehr fired the first shots when he told the players not to ratify a realignment plan that was good for them and the game—purely as a negotiating ploy, then refused to sit down with Bettman for months.

All a game by Donald the Dough Boy.
- John Jaeckel

The argument could be made that he needed to do that to show that things were going to be different this time around after the 2004 lockout where, by all counts, the union got railroaded.

This is almost like politics where you just blame the president before you for leaving you with these problems.

And I actually agree with the point of not sitting down until the season was over. Why place the players' heads in something other than playing the game during the season?

It's clear that you hate Fehr because you were a baseball fan and the 1994 World Series strike scarred you. But that was one time.. how many times have we suffered lockouts under Bettman? Three... including that wiped away an entire season for the first time in North American sports history.

>A sad, sad situation for so many
>All this talk of owners being scared of the NHLPA decertification card, think again
>This article sums up decertification pretty well: http://aol.sportingnews.c...hockey-strike-brown-v-nfl
>Also, there have been comments that the owners should just stop giving contracts beyond 5 years -- well, Bettman addressed this issue directly in his press conference yesterday -- if such a move is done "informally" by owners it is called collusion -- see MLB's past when owners tried to "fix" player salaries
>The 5 year cap on salary length needs to be in the CBA to avoid collusion and the enormous financial penalties that come with practicing collusion
>The NHL brand is in serious trouble -- especially when fans see what ticket prices will be a year or two after the league has been playing again -- there will no doubt be some BS campaign directed at the fan from both sides
>Anyone interested in organizing a fan boycott of game 1 of whatever the next NHL season is?
>How cool would it be for these players and owners to reach an agreement and play game 1 in empty buildings across the NHL?

You had me up to *.

I think you are overestimating Fehr and underestimating the owners. He called their bluff and now they're going to call his. Unless he gets real (which he won't) or the players fire him (or meaningfully threaten to), the season is over.

I have negotiated recently against a "scorch the earth" attorney (in my own divorce). They give you two options and two options only. Bend over and take it or scorch the earth yourself. I assure you, guys like Ilitch, Rocky, Snider and others are going to go the nuclear route and widen the fissure in the PA. Translated: they will tank the season.
- John Jaeckel

JJ,

I'm just stating my opinion and am not for or against either side. This is just how I see things. I think the owners made concessions they didn't think they were going to have to make and were banking on the NHLPA accepting the deal. The fact that they didn't makes it impossible for owners to "take everything off the table" unless they just want to get rid of the NHL. I think their livid that they have to negotiate/give up more, they were banking on having this wrapped up by now.

In the next few days cooler heads will prevail, just watch. Like I said before I expect a deal done soon, progress was made in NYC the past few days. Bettman and Fehr will probably be speaking soon if they haven't spoke already. This will get done.

>A sad, sad situation for so many
>All this talk of owners being scared of the NHLPA decertification card, think again
>This article sums up decertification pretty well: http://aol.sportingnews.c...hockey-strike-brown-v-nfl
>Also, there have been comments that the owners should just stop giving contracts beyond 5 years -- well, Bettman addressed this issue directly in his press conference yesterday -- if such a move is done "informally" by owners it is called collusion -- see MLB's past when owners tried to "fix" player salaries
>The 5 year cap on salary length needs to be in the CBA to avoid collusion and the enormous financial penalties that come with practicing collusion
>The NHL brand is in serious trouble -- especially when fans see what ticket prices will be a year or two after the league has been playing again -- there will no doubt be some BS campaign directed at the fan from both sides
>Anyone interested in organizing a fan boycott of game 1 of whatever the next NHL season is?
>How cool would it be for these players and owners to reach an agreement and play game 1 in empty buildings across the NHL?
- SnapitUpstairs

I have stated this a couple days ago. I would love to see this happen. (Although, I would hate for the vendors and all the fringe employees to lose out on a game. )

Bill Daly's voice mail to Steve Fehr yesterday.

http://blogs.thescore.com...sage-to-steve-fehr-audio/

"There will be a season because there can’t not be a season."

http://www.theglobeandmai...the-pride/article6065334/

Dryden

The question asked.. "why do you want wreck this company?". The reply was, "because its wreckable!" Every time I see Fehr, he reminds of Gordon Gecko from the movie Wall Street. Greed and ego drive that man. I find alot of fault with the owners with this, but the PA has really done themselves in here. Fehr is out of control and the players need to step up. The kicker is big shots like Crosby and Ryan Miller and marching right along with Fehr. So there you go players.. enjoy this. You hired him, you deal with him. I hope the majority of the players start rocking the boat to get this deal done.. they will all regret this if they dont.

I knew from the time they had Fehr represent them in these negotiations, that my favorite sport was f*cked. Same guy turned me off of baseball for good many years ago.

While hockey has pretty much been the red headed stepchild in most American's eyes, it was finally on good footing, and then we get this. I understand the position on both sides, although I'm more on the player's side, as the owners have themselves to blame for contracts getting crazy, as well as the previous deal they signed.

That all being said, even if there is a season, which I believe there will be, the game will be stained for years to come. Not enough Febreeze to get the funk of this disaster for many, many, seasons.

I respectfully beg to differ Al. Common sense left the building when the owners locked the PA out and asked for 57%.

Donald Fehr may not be in a stronger position with his members, or in his position against the NHL than he is now.

The members as recently as today are behind him. They are not caving for a short term solution. They want a long term playing field they are happy with. And they have the leverage to make it happen. Trust me - the NHL does not even want to go down the road of even seeing if the union can decert. How many teams are literally at risk of financial collapse absent season revenue?

Players can go to Europe to pay their bills if they need to. The Coyotes can't.

What is at risk is this season for not making a deal now. The players appear united in their vision for it not to be about only this season.

I still think we see a deal soon because the owners have more at risk than the players do.
- Return of the Roar

The Owners are not blameless....But who thiught they would start negotiations with a 50-50 split??

Some players not most players can go to Europe to pay their bills.

As far as your view of finances concerning teams....Most don't make money and many lose a lot.

Not playing a season does not come close to breaking any owners, not one.

But many players will be financially hurt.

Ted Turner was the prospective owner and put up the money for the expansion fee, no questions asked.

Next?
- Irish Blues

Oh...I thought it was because of the long history of every other professional sports franchise flourishing there...

Al,
Have you heard why Toews left NYC on Tuesday? Did he have other commitments or was he not happy how things were going?
- furso27

Sorry, no clue.

JJ,

I'm just stating my opinion and am not for or against either side. This is just how I see things. I think the owners made concessions they didn't think they were going to have to make and were banking on the NHLPA accepting the deal. The fact that they didn't makes it impossible for owners to "take everything off the table" unless they just want to get rid of the NHL. I think their livid that they have to negotiate/give up more, they were banking on having this wrapped up by now.

In the next few days cooler heads will prevail, just watch. Like I said before I expect a deal done soon, progress was made in NYC the past few days. Bettman and Fehr will probably be speaking soon if they haven't spoke already. This will get done.
- dan9189

Some good points although the big issue now is time.

I don't see NHL owners going for any deal unless there is a close to a 50 game season. There has been word "leaked" out of BOG Meeting that a 48 game schedule is needed.

The Owners are not blameless....But who thiught they would start negotiations with a 50-50 split??

Some players not most players can go to Europe to pay their bills.

As far as your view of finances concerning teams....Most don't make money and many lose a lot.

Not playing a season does not come close to breaking any owners, not one.

But many players will be financially hurt.
- Al

If players (and I said this for the NFL and NHL the last few years) didn't see this lockout coming and manage their money wisely, then it's their fault. Maybe a lost season won't break owners but there's always the real possibility of decertification in which players can take their respective employers to court for lost wages from the lockout. That certainly won't help many teams if that happens. There is considerable damage for the owners if there's no season.

Some good points although the big issue now is time.

I don't see NHL owners going for any deal unless there is a close to a 50 game season. There has been word "leaked" out of BOG Meeting that a 48 game schedule is needed.
- Al

Agreed, time is a big issue. I still think this gets done.

"There will be a season because there can’t not be a season."

http://www.theglobeandmai...the-pride/article6065334/

Dryden
- Feeling_Glucky

>Great Op-Ed by Dryden
>Would like to believe his last line, but Fehr got the World Series cancelled
>Fehr also has been on record many times about his disdain for salary caps -- ironically, I too, hate caps -- I think players should be able to make as much as someone will pay them
>But, the NHL will never survive as a 30-team league without artificial market controls
>I also think Fehr's track record shows he really could care less about the damage done to the game he is involved in (Bettman's no angel, either)
>It took steroids and home-run derby to get U.S. fans back into ballparks after '94 and many stayed away
>There is a HUGE problem facing the NHL after a deal gets done -- the Coyotes style of play -- dropping 4 players down low in front of their own net and waiting to counter -- is being adopted by many teams on the ice
>The Coyotes style of play is beyond boring to watch -- and with too many teams and not enough talent to go around -- too many NHL teams are playing versions of it
>From here on, I will be picking my Hawk games very carefully -- I'm not paying top dollar to watch that type of hockey

This sucks. I really thought we were going to be watching hockey by Jan 1. Thanks for the insight and good article JJ. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail and something can be worked out.

If players (and I said this for the NFL and NHL the last few years) didn't see this lockout coming and manage their money wisely, then it's their fault. Maybe a lost season won't break owners but there's always the real possibility of decertification in which players can take their respective employers to court for lost wages from the lockout. That certainly won't help many teams if that happens. There is considerable damage for the owners if there's no season.
- dan9189

>All this talk of owners being scared of the NHLPA decertification card, think again
>This article sums up decertification pretty well: http://aol.sportingnews.c...hockey-strike-brown-v-nfl
>Fehr wants no salary cap AND a 30 team NHL -- this is not financially possible for the NHL -- players will have to choose between much smaller league and no-cap or more jobs with a 30 team NHL (or a few less)
>Decertification is no guarantee for the players that they will get the "win" they desperately want

People got it backwards. Players are telling Fehr not to take the deal not Fehr telling the players. Also, I hate how Bettman keeps saying its a package deal, because your package smells of 6-8 owners promises you can not keep. Watching Gary address the media shows he's going to have to break several promises.

You dont get to call yourself a fan of the game anymore then. This shouldnt be about one side f*cking the other to settle a 6 year old score. Concessions were made, on many issues. Fehr's penis must be incredibly small. He ruined baseball, and is ready to ruin the NHL, to compensate apparently. We want to see this game, and the players want to play. Fehr just wants to choke the owners.
- millsp30

Baseball isn't ruined, that's a false statement. NHL owners need to realize that Warm Weather climate will never get into Hockey..

Move PHX to Quebec
Move one of the FL teams to Hartford
Move the other FL team to outside Toronto
Move Columbus to Seattle

I don't know why the owners need to restrict now length of contracts.. why can't they do that when they offer them/

If players (and I said this for the NFL and NHL the last few years) didn't see this lockout coming and manage their money wisely, then it's their fault. Maybe a lost season won't break owners but there's always the real possibility of decertification in which players can take their respective employers to court for lost wages from the lockout. That certainly won't help many teams if that happens. There is considerable damage for the owners if there's no season.
- dan9189

I don't see how the players can win a court case for lost wages....The CBA expired before the Lockout.

But anything is possible with the NHL...

Like I tweeted last night..Somewhere, Arthur Wirtz, Bill Wirtz, James Norris and Tommy Ivan are sitting around sipping fine Scotch and smiling.