I'll agree that Fehr is not looking great. But I hardly think Bettman is being made to look good. At the end of the day, these guys are both representatives of their respective parties (players and owners) and they also both have huge ego problems.

I'm not sure why you specifically blame Fehr as opposted to blaming both. You must realize that the offers the owners have put out have been a slap in the face to the players multiple times. Both sides are untrusting of the other because each side is trying to get all they can, rather than work together for a deal.

But that is not specific to Fehr or Bettman. It's definitely both.
- lifexkills

Agreed as far as where the sides started. Since then, the owners have made by far the most effort to settle. Fehr screwed everyone, including you and I this week for the great glory of Donald Fehr.

I disagree, he can't talk about what is happening today in terms of his slant on 94. The fact remains, they were close to a good deal for both sides u til Fehr killed it for the sake of his "reputation" as a negotiator
- John Jaeckel

And Fehr works for the players. If the players want this, they have every right to tell him to take it. With Crosby, Toews and other captains/leaders around these meetings the last several days, I get the feeling the players are still willing to dig their heels in and keep pushing for more.

I'll agree that Fehr is not looking great. But I hardly think Bettman is being made to look good. At the end of the day, these guys are both representatives of their respective parties (players and owners) and they also both have huge ego problems.

I'm not sure why you specifically blame Fehr as opposted to blaming both. You must realize that the offers the owners have put out have been a slap in the face to the players multiple times. Both sides are untrusting of the other because each side is trying to get all they can, rather than work together for a deal.

But that is not specific to Fehr or Bettman. It's definitely both.
- lifexkills

The initial NHL proposal to the players was ridiculous and insulting, as have been several of the NHLPA's responses to subsequent league proposals.

You can debate whether Bettman's press conference yesterday was an acting job or not, but he put out enough specific facts about the parameters that leads me to believe that Fehr was out and out lying when he said the sides were close, when he knew he wouldn't agree to the three "die on the hill" ownership issues.

The bottom line is that Fehr is interesting only in "winning" this, however he defines that in his own mind. He's has no interest in the game and getting it back on the ice, the fans, or even the lower and middle-tier constituents he represents.

He suicide bombed a proposal yesterday that the players could have thrived on for the next decade.

As an aside, Mrs. NHL Player is very unhappy this morning. And don't think their significant other isn't hearing about it.

What I don't understand is does anyone think the deal that could be signed will be much better than what is in the future? After all the losses and a short term deal like the NHLPA wants, how is that deal going to be better?
- themizer

The deal that will be signed will be very close to what's there now - they seem to be held up over about $90MM MakeWhole over the life of the CBA, one or two years on length of contracts, two years on life of the CBA, and whether the post-game meal will be catered by Tim Hortons or Chic-Fil-A.

The deal that will be signed will be very close to what's there now - they seem to be held up over about $90MM MakeWhole over the life of the CBA, one or two years on length of contracts, two years on life of the CBA, and whether the post-game meal will be catered by Tim Hortons or Chic-Fil-A.
- StLBravesFan

I disagree. Make Whole and the other concessions the owners made this week are off the table. It is back to square one. Those things aren't there anymore. The owners are pissed. Someone on the ownership side was quoted yesterday as calling Fehr "a suicide bomber".

I am aware of that and it's a very good point. However, for the average fan actually going to a game is much more, if not prohibitively expensive, and anecdotally (I admit) many fans left in 94 and are now only casual fans at best. Clearly the NFL has eclipsed MLB in pre-eminence in the US since then
- John Jaeckel

JJ - games are prohibitively expensive because of supply and demand - Cubs sell out (or used to), therefore they can keep increasing prices; Sox don't, so they have to lower prices.

I've said this here before: blame Harry Carey for outrageous Wrigley Field prices, not players salaries. If salaries dropped by half, ticket prices wouldn't come down by a penny.

I disagree. Make Whole and the other concessions the owners made this week are off the table. It is back to square one. Those things aren't there anymore. The owners are pissed. Someone on the ownership side was quoted yesterday as calling Fehr "a suicide bomber".
- MartiniMan

Nothing is "off the table" - that's just the whining of little children.

If it was acceptable to the owners yesterday, it will be acceptable tomorrow if it gets a deal.

Do you really thing any but the most hard-line owners want to go back to square one? However pissed they are, they'll do a deal.

No, but I've met union lawyers, they don't know any different. I blame Bettman, he's been the problem for a long time.
- Scooby_Doo

With all due respect, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you've never met a labour lawyer like Don (frank)in' Fehr.

I get that Bettman isn't the most likeable guy, but you have to admit that he's grown the game to record levels in terms of popularity, revenues and ultimately is directly responsible for what the players are being paid today.

Fehr is the problem. From not wanting to negotiate in the summer of 2011, to his stall tactics, to reluctantly submitting the PA's FIRST propose only a few weeks ago, to constantly changing gears that sets the process back, right up to his complete failure to read the situation saying that "we're close to a deal" only to have the league blow that sh1t out of the water 20 minutes later. Hell, from all accounts earlier this week, everything was going really well and actual progress was being made until Don Fehr entered the equation.

Both sides are partly responsible for this lockout, but Fehr and the players are more so. No my friend, we'd be watching hockey RIGHT NOW if Fehr wasn't a part of this!

Agreed as far as where the sides started. Since then, the owners have made by far the most effort to settle. Fehr screwed everyone, including you and I this week for the great glory of Donald Fehr.
- John Jaeckel

Whether you think it's relevant or not JJ - Bettman, the owners and Prokauer Rose use the "Lockout Tool" as their first and principle option to impose their will on the NHLPA right off the bat. Don Fehr is making their decision to do that as painful, exasperating and financially expensive as he can on them. Fehr may be a snake, but Gary Bettman and Bill Daly don't stand on much higher moral ground than Fehr despite their carefully crafted statements in the press conference last night.

Nothing is "off the table" - that's just the whining of little children.

If it was acceptable to the owners yesterday, it will be acceptable tomorrow if it gets a deal.

Do you really thing any but the most hard-line owners want to go back to square one? However pissed they are, they'll do a deal.
- StLBravesFan

Absolutely correct on all of the above.

Nothing is "off the table" - that's just the whining of little children.

If it was acceptable to the owners yesterday, it will be acceptable tomorrow if it gets a deal.

Do you really thing any but the most hard-line owners want to go back to square one? However pissed they are, they'll do a deal.
- StLBravesFan

None of us know if that is true or not.

I got the distinct impression yesterday that the moderates among the ownership group were the ones that were livid at Fehr.

Whether you think it's relevant or not JJ - Bettman, the owners and Prokauer Rose use the "Lockout Tool" as their first and principle option to impose their will on the NHLPA right off the bat. Don Fehr is making their decision to do that as painful, exasperating and financially expensive as he can on them. Fehr may be a snake, but Gary Bettman and Bill Daly don't stand on much higher moral ground than Fehr despite their carefully crafted statements in the press conference last night.
- RickJ

If you accept the premise that so many teams are losing money or making very little, the NHL had two options. Lock the players out or play under the existing contract while they "negotiate". Anybody who watched Don Fehr take his players out right before the MLB playoffs would realize option 2 would have been a really bad idea.

Agreed as far as where the sides started. Since then, the owners have made by far the most effort to settle. Fehr screwed everyone, including you and I this week for the great glory of Donald Fehr.
- John Jaeckel

I am one of those baseball fans who left in 1994 and never went back. I've never been to a game since. Almost never watch, except occasional playoffs and World Series, only because my wife likes to watch that time of year. And frankly, I don't regret it. I'm getting close in this sport....

If you accept the premise that so many teams are losing money or making very little, the NHL had two options. Lock the players out or play under the existing contract while they "negotiate". Anybody who watched Don Fehr take his players out right before the MLB playoffs would realize option 2 would have been a really bad idea.
- madmike71

They had only 2 options? Was that after Bettman's conclusion that it was wise to keep operating the sinkhole in Phoenix and insisting that franchises in Miami, Anaheim, Long Island etc are viable going forward. Close up those dog franchises and the union is on much weaker ground.

The bigger picture here is that Bettman and Co. want an NHLPA that is a league lapdog like the NFL union and Don Fehr isn't in compliance.

Fehr's doing what he should, being hard-headed in order to get the fairest deal for the owners. Any other guy, Bettman would roll over his ass by now. Bettman and the NHL wait for signs the PA is weak in order to take advantage. The PA made some concessions recently probably desperately, and now the NHL is trying to take advantage of this desperateness.

Why should the PA bend over backwards to a 5 year contract maximum? No need to, they shouldn't even have to negotiate it right now? It's another one of the things the NHL implemented that people have come to accept as necessary to get a deal done. Just like close to 50-50 split was.

No need for the PA to give in more, now it's the NHL's time.
- _Zippy_

you have no clue wtf you're talking about.... so basically just shut the (frank) up

Anyone still supporting the players and backing Fehr are completely (frank)ing clueless and should follow another sport.... so (frank)ing clueless it actually physically pisses me off

Anyone still supporting the players and backing Fehr are completely (frank)ing clueless and should follow another sport.... so (frank)ing clueless it actually physically pisses me off
- SpoiledByOil

You are getting a little emotional early in the morning - this crap is reality in pro sport these days. The boys don't play the game for a couple of cold beers and march to Conn Smythe's instructions anymore.

Anyone still supporting the players and backing Fehr are completely (frank)ing clueless and should follow another sport.... so (frank)ing clueless it actually physically pisses me off
- SpoiledByOil

Good that you're open to discussion in a forum made for it.

They had only 2 options? Was that after Bettman's conclusion that it was wise to keep operating the sinkhole in Phoenix and insisting that franchises in Miami, Anaheim, Long Island etc are viable going forward. Close up those dog franchises and the union is on much weaker ground.

The bigger picture here is that Bettman and Co. want an NHLPA that is a league lapdog like the NFL union and Don Fehr isn't in compliance.
- RickJ

Yeah.... I remember the United Steel Workers coming back with similar rhetoric back in the 70's.......just before every steel mill shut down devastating the City of Pittsburgh for more than a couple of decades.

As somebody that has spent a significant amount of time in a union, I can tell you unions have a bad habit of fighting for the top earners. As it's been stated several times around here, the vast majority of the players would never be affected by the remaining issues. If Don Fehr was a real leader, he'd let the latest proposal go to membership.

By the way, the HO HO says hello.....

What we have here is after brinksmanship, negotiation, Fehr committed party foul. Plain and simple. Overplayed his hand and blatantly lied to everyone. You can always hold out, you can implore tactics, but to go to the well 3 or 4 times in 3 days moving goal posts is not good faith negotiation. Grand standing, making formal offers however absurd by either side is one thing, but there are rules and formalities in negotiation and Fehr clearly looked like an ass and was called out on it while he stood up there.

While many will be content to blame strawman Bettman at this point, lets look at facts and what is on the table. It is not complicated. Players know they have to restructure to keep 30 teams alive, but don't want to have to be the only ones to give back. Owners want longer term deal and ability to keep weak teams alive. They arrived at a fair conclusion.

Anyhow, somebody tell me where the owners yesterday are being unreasonable. They walked away after they dealt with tempermental Fehr and union constantly changing their mind and moving goal posts. That is juvenile and weak in negotiation. If you don't know clearly what you want and go into negotiation trying to get whatever you can...you will look like a fool and lose. That is what is next.

Comments like this remind me of comments about how far ahead the players are now compared to where they were in 2004. Yes, they're ahead - but go back to 2004 and project forward based on what the players were getting then, and they've lost in a huge way.

Same thing with MLB. Revenues are much higher than in 1994, they've got a huge TV contract - and yet, if you stepped off of where they were in '93 and poised to go in '94 before the strike hit and project forward, it's pretty clear MLB took a massive hit. Certainly, for the "huge" growth over the last X years, it could have been higher if not for numerous fans who got pissed and left MLB for good - and it's not a trivial number by any stretch.

Moral of the story here: include all of the data and see what conclusion falls out, don't just cherry-pick the points that fit the conclusion you want to believe.
- Irish Blues

yea beacause losing 24% to bring the EMPLOYEES down to 57% of total revenues before operationg costs is such major concession by the players... Are you (frank)ing kidding me?????? like seriously???? how the (frank) is EMPLOYEES dropping to 57% of revenues a (frank)ing concession, they should feel lucky to be paid what they're paid to playe a (frank)ing game, instead they feel entitled and butt hurt about making millions of (frank)ing dollars... i hope they all get testicular cancer


Edit: Since they all clearly aren't using their nutsacks anyways, besides when they dip them into each others mouths

What we have here is after brinksmanship, negotiation, Fehr committed party foul. Plain and simple. Overplayed his hand and blatantly lied to everyone. You can always hold out, you can implore tactics, but to go to the well 3 or 4 times in 3 days moving goal posts is not good faith negotiation. Grand standing, making formal offers however absurd by either side is one thing, but there are rules and formalities in negotiation and Fehr clearly looked like an ass and was called out on it while he stood up there.

While many will be content to blame strawman Bettman at this point, lets look at facts and what is on the table. It is not complicated. Players know they have to restructure to keep 30 teams alive, but don't want to have to be the only ones to give back. Owners want longer term deal and ability to keep weak teams alive. They arrived at a fair conclusion.

Anyhow, somebody tell me where the owners yesterday are being unreasonable. They walked away after they dealt with tempermental Fehr and union constantly changing their mind and moving goal posts. That is juvenile and weak in negotiation. If you don't know clearly what you want and go into negotiation trying to get whatever you can...you will look like a fool and lose. That is what is next.
- TrueGrit

Great post.

Agreed as far as where the sides started. Since then, the owners have made by far the most effort to settle. Fehr screwed everyone, including you and I this week for the great glory of Donald Fehr.
- John Jaeckel

I agree with you to an extent. The owners HAVE tried to settle more recently, but the players are right in saying that the concessions the owners make are based on an already owner-biased offer.

I go back to the equation Matt Carle said months ago after the league's second proposal. The owners don't want to honor the contracts that they sign. Adding money to make whole, but not making the contracts 100% whole is not really a concession.

Imagine your boss said your salary was $100,000/yr. Then they said they were only going to pay you $60,000/yr. You complain so they say "fine, $70,000/yr". Not really a concession cuz you're still down 30%.

Now, that said - the money issues don't seem to be a sticking point anymore, but I'm just framing the conversation - the owners "giving back" a little on a deal that is a major win for them leaves the PA side wary.

As far as the contract stuff, I agree with the league on the 5% differential to prevent back-diving contacts to ease the cap hit. But I agree with the players that contract length shouldn't be capped. With a salary cap AND a capped contract length, there's really no leverage for players. There will be no deal that looks better than another because the length won't change and the money is going to top out somewhere (although who knows... owners are known to spend beyond their means). Plus - GMs/owners build teams around franchise players. Why not lock them up long term? How excited were you when the Hawks locked up Toews, Kane, Seabrook and Keith - the core of their team, long-term? I know you may have had some misgivings since then, but I can go back and find your old blog posts from then... you were pretty ecstatic. So imagine these guys flowing in and out of the team every few years? Not nearly as awesome.

Anyway, sorry for the rant. Like most other diehards, I'm just frustrated. Frustrated at the situation. But I refuse to believe you can place the blame on any one person, or any one group at the negotiating table.

They're both trying to "win" which in this case means everyone loses. That means both sides... and most importantly, the fans.

yea beacause losing 24% to bring the EMPLOYEES down to 57% of total revenues before operationg costs is such major concession by the players... Are you (frank)ing kidding me?????? like seriously???? how the (frank) is EMPLOYEES dropping to 57% of revenues a (frank)ing concession, they should feel lucky to be paid what they're paid to playe a (frank)ing game, instead they feel entitled and butt hurt about making millions of (frank)ing dollars... i hope they all get testicular cancer


Edit: Since they all clearly aren't using their nutsacks anyways, besides when they dip them into each others mouths
- SpoiledByOil

Don't they have schools in Edmonton where they teach you how to write coherently?

Anyone still supporting the players and backing Fehr are completely (frank)ing clueless and should follow another sport.... so (frank)ing clueless it actually physically pisses me off
- SpoiledByOil

Instead of just name calling, how about you tell us why we're wrong? I've yet to see it.

I am actually annoyed at both parties, but I would say I'm VERY SLIGHTLY in favor of the players.