HockeyyInsiderr? Is that you?
- furso27

Why are you blowing my cover?

This is why any fan's feelings about Fehr or Bettman really don't matter. The fans have no representation at this table.

That being said, both Bettman and Fehr are doing nothing but their jobs. The league's leverage in this matter was the lockout - which they used. Then they used the lockout to come to the table with an INSANE initial proposal. In other words, doing what is in the best interests of the owners. Those two things set the tone for the rest of the journey.

Ultimately, the PA's leverage is decertification. Fehr is not only absolutely doing his job, he is doing it well - to represent the players' best interests. If he can squeeze ANYTHING else from the owners by threatening to decertify, he should do it because that is his job.

We all need to remember that if Fehr was not asked to return to "the room" there is certainly no messaging from the players that he was asked to stay out. One can only conclude from that that both Fehr and the players must feel that their leverage to decertify has the potential to obtain more for the PA. To not exercise that leverage is to not do what is in the best interests of the players.

Yeah, as a fan it sucks. A lot. But as I said, we as fans have no seat at this table. And when this does settle, and we all go back to watching games, and buying hockey crap, and caring again, you will know why neither side will EVER care about what we as fans think.
- Return of the Roar

I don't disagree with what you are saying, "the jobs" part, but the fact is rarely does a player side win in these battles. That's my point.

What infriuates me is the BS spin show going on. How do you sit there, Donald Fehr, and claim both sides are close, have to run up to the podium 3 minutes later, and say the NHL decined your offer, and then the general public listens to a dstraught and puzzled Bettman ponder why Fehr did that in first place? Fehr looks stupid, and if I'm a player, I'm embarassed today.

I'll say it for the 9000th time, this is a niche sport in the US. It's not a main stream sport. It's so far behind NFL, MLB, NBA it's not even funny. So every day they waste playing chicken, the harder it will be to make that up with the fringe fan.

If the NBA hadn't turned into a real life "White Man Can't Jump", I'd seriously consider giving that a LONG look this spring and summer.

Billionaires vs Millionaires holding the fans hostage.

Whether you think it's relevant or not JJ - Bettman, the owners and Prokauer Rose use the "Lockout Tool" as their first and principle option to impose their will on the NHLPA right off the bat. Don Fehr is making their decision to do that as painful, exasperating and financially expensive as he can on them. Fehr may be a snake, but Gary Bettman and Bill Daly don't stand on much higher moral ground than Fehr despite their carefully crafted statements in the press conference last night.
- RickJ

Anyone that truely beleives the NHL had any other option than to lock out the players is truely insane! There was no other option. period.

They had only 2 options? Was that after Bettman's conclusion that it was wise to keep operating the sinkhole in Phoenix and insisting that franchises in Miami, Anaheim, Long Island etc are viable going forward. Close up those dog franchises and the union is on much weaker ground.

The bigger picture here is that Bettman and Co. want an NHLPA that is a league lapdog like the NFL union and Don Fehr isn't in compliance.
- RickJ

Ah there we go again... Someone that is absolutly clueless about the league and why teams get selected to go in certain places.

Are you 12?

I don't disagree with what you are saying, "the jobs" part, but the fact is rarely does a player side win in these battles. That's my point.

What infriuates me is the BS spin show going on. How do you sit there, Donald Fehr, and claim both sides are close, have to run up to the podium 3 minutes later, and say the NHL decined your offer, and then the general public listens to a dstraught and puzzled Bettman ponder why Fehr did that in first place? Fehr looks stupid, and if I'm a player, I'm embarassed today.

I'll say it for the 9000th time, this is a niche sport in the US. It's not a main stream sport. It's so far behind NFL, MLB, NBA it's not even funny. So every day they waste playing chicken, the harder it will be to make that up with the fringe fan.

If the NBA hadn't turned into a real life "White Man Can't Jump", I'd seriously consider giving that a LONG look this spring and summer.

Billionaires vs Millionaires holding the fans hostage.
- SteveRain

Even though I despise CLoutier and his miserable writing, he mentioned that Crosby and Burkle met and approached the meeting with ideas together. Toews has been mentioned quite a bit as a face of the players side, I wonder if he has had contact with Rocky in the same way. JJ mentioned this a while back, sending these podunk owners will not make this happen. Illitch, Dolan, Wirtz, the big timers need to step in, sit down and finish this lockout. Always go to war with your best soldiers, not the guy who mops the barracks.

Even though I despise CLoutier and his miserable writing, he mentioned that Crosby and Burkle met and approached the meeting with ideas together. Toews has been mentioned quite a bit as a face of the players side, I wonder if he has had contact with Rocky in the same way. JJ mentioned this a while back, sending these podunk owners will not make this happen. Illitch, Dolan, Wirtz, the big timers need to step in, sit down and finish this lockout. Always go to war with your best soldiers, not the guy who mops the barracks.
- nickmo2699

Dolan wanted in but because of his stance on the lockout and his cloudy past involving his dealings with Bettman, he was passed over.

John,

It sure hurts to know you're right. It's interesting how I have mentally let go of the hockey league I used to love now. Too bad the Chicago Express couldn't have toughed it out till this year..... They'd be the poop out here in the 'burbs right now.......

I don't disagree with what you are saying, "the jobs" part, but the fact is rarely does a player side win in these battles. That's my point.

What infriuates me is the BS spin show going on. How do you sit there, Donald Fehr, and claim both sides are close, have to run up to the podium 3 minutes later, and say the NHL decined your offer, and then the general public listens to a dstraught and puzzled Bettman ponder why Fehr did that in first place? Fehr looks stupid, and if I'm a player, I'm embarassed today.

I'll say it for the 9000th time, this is a niche sport in the US. It's not a main stream sport. It's so far behind NFL, MLB, NBA it's not even funny. So every day they waste playing chicken, the harder it will be to make that up with the fringe fan.

If the NBA hadn't turned into a real life "White Man Can't Jump", I'd seriously consider giving that a LONG look this spring and summer.

Billionaires vs Millionaires holding the fans hostage.
- SteveRain

Not really any different than the NHL starting it all off with a lockout. Both sides have equal responsibility in the spin game. It ain't about us as fans, and never will be. It is employers vs. employees - a process that unionization (in spite of its excesses over the years) and collective bargaining ultimately does make more civil than fire bombs and riots.

This will be over soon. The players have the leverage, holding the nuclear missile of decertification for which the owners have no Patriot missile for.

Ah there we go again... Someone that is absolutly clueless about the league and why teams get selected to go in certain places.

Are you 12?
- Iggysbff

Maybe you can explain since clearly your knowledge of NHL hockey is much superior to mine. I'm willing to learn. Please put some emphasis on the selection reasoning for the Atlanta Thrasher franchise.

Maybe you can explain since clearly your knowledge of NHL hockey is much superior to mine. I'm willing to learn. Please put some emphasis on the selection reasoning for the Atlanta Thrasher franchise.
- RickJ

It's cool Rick, just send them back to Cloutier's page where they get their knowledge from.

Hate the fact that we have unions, that's the real problem.
- Scooby_Doo

In the case of the NHL, yes it is the problem. Unions still serve a purpose, in certain circumstances. In other circumstances they are like parasites.

This is why any fan's feelings about Fehr or Bettman really don't matter. The fans have no representation at this table.

That being said, both Bettman and Fehr are doing nothing but their jobs. The league's leverage in this matter was the lockout - which they used. Then they used the lockout to come to the table with an INSANE initial proposal. In other words, doing what is in the best interests of the owners. Those two things set the tone for the rest of the journey.

Ultimately, the PA's leverage is decertification. Fehr is not only absolutely doing his job, he is doing it well - to represent the players' best interests. If he can squeeze ANYTHING else from the owners by threatening to decertify, he should do it because that is his job.

We all need to remember that if Fehr was not asked to return to "the room" there is certainly no messaging from the players that he was asked to stay out. One can only conclude from that that both Fehr and the players must feel that their leverage to decertify has the potential to obtain more for the PA. To not exercise that leverage is to not do what is in the best interests of the players.

Yeah, as a fan it sucks. A lot. But as I said, we as fans have no seat at this table. And when this does settle, and we all go back to watching games, and buying hockey crap, and caring again, you will know why neither side will EVER care about what we as fans think.
- Return of the Roar

IMO, their "jobs" were to get a deal done in a situation where a deal HAD TO GET DONE.

They have both failed, and neither is representing the best interests of their consituencies (sp?) - which is to get a deal done.

Get a deal done.

Ah there we go again... Someone that is absolutly clueless about the league and why teams get selected to go in certain places.

Are you 12?
- Iggysbff

Do all posters from Edmonton say that those with opposing views are clueless?

IMO, their "jobs" were to get a deal done in a situation where a deal HAD TO GET DONE.

They have both failed, and neither is representing the best interests of their consituencies (sp?) - which is to get a deal done.

Get a deal done.
- StLBravesFan

No - their jobs are to represent their constituencies' interests in the negotiation of a new CBA. Timing for us as fans is not an issue for them. Only the outcome of a new CBA. Which will get done soon, on better terms for the PA because the NHL has no bullets left. To not exploit that would be malfeasance on Fehr's part.

Sadly, the only people truly making this personal are the fans.

Relax. Put some extra rum in the egg nog. Us sheeple will be back to watching hockey soon enough.

No - their jobs are to represent their constituencies' interests in the negotiation of a new CBA. Timing for us as fans is not an issue for them. Only the outcome of a new CBA. Which will get done soon, on better terms for the PA because the NHL has no bullets left. To not exploit that would be malfeasance on Fehr's part.

Sadly, the only people truly making this personal are the fans.

Relax. Put some extra rum in the egg nog. Us sheeple will be back to watching hockey soon enough.
- Return of the Roar

My thing about getting the deal done - certainly, both sides are hurt - and increasingly hurt - by losing games and seasons.

We now know about where the CBA will wind up - shouldn't be any major surprises not that they've come reasonably close on the make-whole - length of contract and length of CBA should not be enough to foreclose a deal. Any more games lost will hurt both sides more than any further gains either could possibly make on the CBA.

Supporting Fehr and the PA as they kill league is like supporting hitler and the nazis as they killed Jews.... It's just wrong......
- SpoiledByOil

So now we're comparing the NHL Lockout to the Holocaust, great....just great.

I don't disagree with what you are saying, "the jobs" part, but the fact is rarely does a player side win in these battles. That's my point.

What infriuates me is the BS spin show going on. How do you sit there, Donald Fehr, and claim both sides are close, have to run up to the podium 3 minutes later, and say the NHL decined your offer, and then the general public listens to a dstraught and puzzled Bettman ponder why Fehr did that in first place? Fehr looks stupid, and if I'm a player, I'm embarassed today.

I'll say it for the 9000th time, this is a niche sport in the US. It's not a main stream sport. It's so far behind NFL, MLB, NBA it's not even funny. So every day they waste playing chicken, the harder it will be to make that up with the fringe fan.

If the NBA hadn't turned into a real life "White Man Can't Jump", I'd seriously consider giving that a LONG look this spring and summer.

Billionaires vs Millionaires holding the fans hostage.
- SteveRain

THIS

So now we're comparing the NHL Lockout to the Holocaust, great....just great.
- dan9189

So now we're comparing the NHL Lockout to the Holocaust, great....just great.
- dan9189

I know...why do people always come back to referring to current situations to the Nazis in World War II. Unless there's another Holocaust (pray there is not) then there should never be a need to compare anything in our current time to the Nazis.

Maybe you can explain since clearly your knowledge of NHL hockey is much superior to mine. I'm willing to learn. Please put some emphasis on the selection reasoning for the Atlanta Thrasher franchise.
- RickJ

Ted Turner was the prospective owner and put up the money for the expansion fee, no questions asked.

Next?

THIS

- philco28

Thanks Big Guy...

Can't tell you how many buddies I BEGGED To watch hockey, finally did during the 2008-09 season, stuck with it through 2009-10, and fell in love with playoff hockey....are telling me they are done.

That's what these idiots don't get. If MAJOR sposors walk away, watch out. Plus, how do you think this will impact future US TV deals? What other networks will step in to outbid NBC? Nobody. Why? Because every 5 years you idiots lock out and the network loses money.

Worst job in the world right now? The head programmer at the NHL network. How any pioneers of the game specials do you have to keep replaying?

Ted Turner was the prospective owner and put up the money for the expansion fee, no questions asked.

Next?
- Irish Blues

So - apparently - getting the expansion fee was the key to putting franchises in places that don't care about hockey.

Braves are usually at about 60% of capacity, not nearly to 3MM per year.

Hawks are usually in the bottom half of NBA attendance at about 80%-85% of capacity.

Even the Falcons don't usually sell-out.

Those figures don't really cry out for more professional sports teams in Atlanta.

I know...why do people always come back to referring to current situations to the Nazis in World War II. Unless there's another Holocaust (pray there is not) then there should never be a need to compare anything in our current time to the Nazis.
- DarthKane

It's the only thing sick and twisted enough to reference this situation to

Apparently I offended some people..... My bad....

So - apparently - getting the expansion fee was the key to putting franchises in places that don't care about hockey.

Braves are usually at about 60% of capacity, not nearly to 3MM per year.

Hawks are usually in the bottom half of NBA attendance at about 80%-85% of capacity.

Even the Falcons don't usually sell-out.

Those figures don't really cry out for more professional sports teams in Atlanta.
- StLBravesFan

I think the league was probably banking on some sort future deal with TNT/TBS, who knows.

Not really any different than the NHL starting it all off with a lockout. Both sides have equal responsibility in the spin game. It ain't about us as fans, and never will be. It is employers vs. employees - a process that unionization (in spite of its excesses over the years) and collective bargaining ultimately does make more civil than fire bombs and riots.

This will be over soon. The players have the leverage, holding the nuclear missile of decertification for which the owners have no Patriot missile for.
- Return of the Roar

LOL...love the missle analogies. Classic.

We'll see. However, if the NHL smells blood where you have internal fighting happening at the NHLPA per LeBrun, they may not care about this decertification threat. Players seems to be on the verge of cracking. Billionaires win the war vs Millionaires each time.