Thanks Big Guy...

Can't tell you how many buddies I BEGGED To watch hockey, finally did during the 2008-09 season, stuck with it through 2009-10, and fell in love with playoff hockey....are telling me they are done.

That's what these idiots don't get. If MAJOR sposors walk away, watch out. Plus, how do you think this will impact future US TV deals? What other networks will step in to outbid NBC? Nobody. Why? Because every 5 years you idiots lock out and the network loses money.

Worst job in the world right now? The head programmer at the NHL network. How any pioneers of the game specials do you have to keep replaying?
- SteveRain

Good points Rain Man....Bettman's vision of expanding the map to the Sun Belt and beyond was ambitious, but it looks like most Americans in the mainstream (those that follow MLB, NFL, NBA and NCAA religously), don't really give a PHUCK about hockey and maybe they never will.

It's cool that you were able to wrangle up some converts and more of us true fans should endeavor to do that as well. But like you said...it's a NICHE sport that unfortunately, mainstream America has choked on and spit out.

Ted Turner was the prospective owner and put up the money for the expansion fee, no questions asked.

Next?
- Irish Blues

Yup, I imagine there wasn't much more research done to see if it would actually work in Atlanta. Grab the expansion $ and run. The failure of the first team there could be explained away as an unfortunate coincidence.

And using that line of thinking, Gary screwed up badly. Sadam Hussein had a whack of money, Baghdad could have been an awesome location for an expansion team.

You can feel the anger in here today. First time poster, but I read JJ's blog all the time. I am po'd to say the least. Yesterday's wild ride of deal-no deal had me spent. There are alot of people responsible for this. The owners got the salary cap and money back in '04. Then we start to see the 10 year contracts designed by teams deal writers to, yes beat the cap rules. Then last year we see the 100 million dollar contracts tossed around by teams. Greed is a funny thing. All these big deals thrown out in the off season were a sham. These teams had no intention of paying them, but they signed them and own the rights to that player. Now here we are. A deal could get done, but the human ego is incredible. I am in total hockey withdrawl, but I also see this for what it is. The sign of the times. Most of the hockey fans I know cant afford to go to a game or even buy center ice anymore. For most, times are very tough money wise. To see these guys crying over their millions.. please. They are all responsible for this. From the owners who played games with the cap rules to the dog and pony show contracts they threw out to players.. to these million dollar athletes standing behind Fehr pouting.. enough. To see guys like Crosby and others standing behind Fehr makes me mad. What do you make Syd.. 7-8 million a year!?! Let them destroy the season. This league may not recover, but let the mad little rich boys cry and cry. For they do not know what they have.. hockey is the greatest sport in the world. I still get the chills watching playoff hockey. Greatest sport in the world.. For every kid on the pond seeing this.. ignore it. Enjoy the game for what it. Not for what they have done to it!!!!

@ScottieUpshall: Plain and simple these owners think they can break us apart. GOOD LUCK! We r stronger than we've ever been and r behind Fehr %100.

Idiots!!!

Can't believe I'm saying this,but....I hope Bettman takes Fehr and the PA down!!!!!!!!!

Good points Rain Man....Bettman's vision of expanding the map to the Sun Belt and beyond was ambitious, but it looks like most Americans in the mainstream (those that follow MLB, NFL, NBA and NCAA religously), don't really give a PHUCK about hockey and maybe they never will.

It's cool that you were able to wrangle up some converts and more of us true fans should endeavor to do that as well. But like you said...it's a NICHE sport that unfortunately, mainstream America has choked on and spit out.
- philco28

Honestly...they need to retract or relocate teams. Tampa, Florida, Phoenix, Columbus all should be moved to canada or folded.

The growth of hockey in warm climates can't happen. You can't go outside in December and play hockey in those areas, and with how expensive the sport is...not many parents are willing to make that financial commitment to it.

I wish they'd go back to the Norris, Smythe, Patrick, and Adams days....Seeing some of those classic games on tv of late has brought back a lot of memories...

@ScottieUpshall: Plain and simple these owners think they can break us apart. GOOD LUCK! We r stronger than we've ever been and r behind Fehr %100.

Idiots!!!

Can't believe I'm saying this,but....I hope Bettman takes Fehr and the PA down!!!!!!!!!
- captainserious

I stopped following players after I got into a heated exchange with Jamal Mayers. These guys are beyond gone.....

It's the only thing sick and twisted enough to reference this situation to

Apparently I offended some people..... My bad....
- SpoiledByOil

I don't know why you would think any Jew on this list would be offended.

I don't know why you would think any Jew on this list would be offended.
- StLBravesFan

Whatever, I have family who wasted away and died I'm concentration camps, get over it

Honestly...they need to retract or relocate teams. Tampa, Florida, Phoenix, Columbus all should be moved to canada or folded.

The growth of hockey in warm climates can't happen. You can't go outside in December and play hockey in those areas, and with how expensive the sport is...not many parents are willing to make that financial commitment to it.

I wish they'd go back to the Norris, Smythe, Patrick, and Adams days....Seeing some of those classic games on tv of late has brought back a lot of memories...
- SteveRain

So true...there are too many teams and you nailed it about the problem hockey has in the western U.S. and Florida. I'd like to see a league with 20-24 teams tops.

@ScottieUpshall: Plain and simple these owners think they can break us apart. GOOD LUCK! We r stronger than we've ever been and r behind Fehr %100.

- captainserious

As I suspected folks. It's not about Fehr. The players appear to be sanctioning his actions.

Whatever, I have family who wasted away and died I'm concentration camps, get over it
- SpoiledByOil

If this were a true statement you would not respond with "get over it". Your use of language and reactions to criticism tell me you are probably a late teenage or early twenties boy who is trying to incite an argument. If that what you want to do, then do so with thoughts or comments about hockey. Please do not reference or trivialize one of the greatest black marks in human history.

Now, can we go back to discussing the lockout?

Not a lawyer, but what I understand about desertification is that it won't work for the NHLPA.

The NFL is a monopoly, there really is no other comparable option for NFL players. The CFL is too small, and there's no one else out there playing
american football.

On the other hand, there are a myriad of options for hockey players, as we've seen in the lockout. In addition to the AHL, there are professional leagues in Switzerland, Germany, Finland, Russia, etc. Lots of places to go play. The NHL players have options, the footballers do not.
- scottak

I think a more acurate comparison is the NFL is a perfect example of pure socialism which doesn't work for a society but does for a sports league.

Many NHL players will not have a job or will make a whole lot less if there was not a NHL.

The big name and better players will make decent money and many if not the majority will work for about $100,000 per season or not all.

On Twitter@AlCimaglia

As I suspected folks. It's not about Fehr. The players appear to be sanctioning his actions.
- Return of the Roar

That avatar never gets old Roar

As I suspected folks. It's not about Fehr. The players appear to be sanctioning his actions.
- Return of the Roar

The problem is the players were so thirsty for leadership and direction, that Fehr capitalized on their desperation to get complete and unwavering faith. He is theri white knight who is going to correct all the wrongs the owners have committed in the past. It's blind faith and it's how Fehr operates. Common sense has left the building on both sides of the table.

The problem is the players were so thirsty for leadership and direction, that Fehr capitalized on their desperation to get complete and unwavering faith. He is theri white knight who is going to correct all the wrongs the owners have committed in the past. It's blind faith and it's how Fehr operates. Common sense has left the building on both sides of the table.
- furso27

Common sense will come back soon if not already in the form of lost income for the players.

If things don't take a quick turn for the better Fehr is done and so could the NHLPA as we know it.

Common sense will come back soon if not already in the form of lost income for the players.

If things don't take a quick turn for the better Fehr is done and so could the NHLPA as we know it.
- Al

Al,
Have you heard why Toews left NYC on Tuesday? Did he have other commitments or was he not happy how things were going?

Common sense will come back soon if not already in the form of lost income for the players.

If things don't take a quick turn for the better Fehr is done and so could the NHLPA as we know it.
- Al

I respectfully beg to differ Al. Common sense left the building when the owners locked the PA out and asked for 57%.

Donald Fehr may not be in a stronger position with his members, or in his position against the NHL than he is now.

The members as recently as today are behind him. They are not caving for a short term solution. They want a long term playing field they are happy with. And they have the leverage to make it happen. Trust me - the NHL does not even want to go down the road of even seeing if the union can decert. How many teams are literally at risk of financial collapse absent season revenue?

Players can go to Europe to pay their bills if they need to. The Coyotes can't.

What is at risk is this season for not making a deal now. The players appear united in their vision for it not to be about only this season.

I still think we see a deal soon because the owners have more at risk than the players do.

I respectfully beg to differ Al. Common sense left the building when the owners locked the PA out and asked for 57%.

Donald Fehr may not be in a stronger position with his members, or in his position against the NHL than he is now.

The members as recently as today are behind him. They are not caving for a short term solution. They want a long term playing field they are happy with. And they have the leverage to make it happen. Trust me - the NHL does not even want to go down the road of even seeing if the union can decert. How many teams are literally at risk of financial collapse absent season revenue?

Players can go to Europe to pay their bills if they need to. The Coyotes can't.

What is at risk is this season for not making a deal now. The players appear united in their vision for it not to be about only this season.

I still think we see a deal soon because the owners have more at risk than the players do.
- Return of the Roar

The deadline for a deal hasn't been reached yet - Bettman knows it, Fehr knows it and has convinced the majority of players accordingly.

I respectfully beg to differ Al. Common sense left the building when the owners locked the PA out and asked for 57%.

Donald Fehr may not be in a stronger position with his members, or in his position against the NHL than he is now.

The members as recently as today are behind him. They are not caving for a short term solution. They want a long term playing field they are happy with. And they have the leverage to make it happen. Trust me - the NHL does not even want to go down the road of even seeing if the union can decert. How many teams are literally at risk of financial collapse absent season revenue?

Players can go to Europe to pay their bills if they need to. The Coyotes can't.

What is at risk is this season for not making a deal now. The players appear united in their vision for it not to be about only this season.

I still think we see a deal soon because the owners have more at risk than the players do.
- Return of the Roar

They can decertify all they want, then a third of the teams will fold, a third of the players will be out of job, half of them might get to play overseas and make peanuts compared to what they make here. Go ahead PA decertify because you can't have contracts over 5 years (which less than 10% of the players have) and because the CBA IS TOO LONG, what a joke

They can decertify all they want, then a third of the teams will fold, a third of the players will be out of job, half of them might get to play overseas and make peanuts compared to what they make here. Go ahead PA decertify because you can't have contracts over 5 years (which less than 10% of the players have) and because the CBA IS TOO LONG, what a joke
- SpoiledByOil

How about this one owners: You don't want contracts longer than five years, or contracts with front loads to circumvent the cap? DON'T OFFER THEM TO PLAYERS THEN.

You don't need a new CBA to make that happen.

How about this one owners: You don't want contracts longer than five years, or contracts with front loads to circumvent the cap? DON'T OFFER THEM TO PLAYERS THEN.

You don't need a new CBA to make that happen.
- Return of the Roar

Yea because its so easy for small market teams to attract talent right? When you're trying to win and grow your fan base you do what ever you can within the rules to grow your product. Now what would be within the rules won't cause further damage to the league. The players only care about themselves, not league stability.

Yea because its so easy for small market teams to attract talent right? When you're trying to win and grow your fan base you do what ever you can within the rules to grow your product. Now what would be within the rules won't cause further damage to the league. The players only care about themselves, not league stability.
- SpoiledByOil

I could go on but I won't.

Enjoy the holidays all! Hopefully there will be hockey soon.

The fact that these contracts are available to offer is a severe issue in this CBA, but the fact that the owners took advantage of it means it doesn't need to be fixed right??? nice logic

Like I said last night, I don't buy any of the acting that went on last night. It's nothing but acting. If everything was truly off the table then the season would've been cancelled last night. Even as "angry" as GB was he even said, they're going to take a deep breath and try to figure out what to do next.

Personally I'm not favoring either side but what I think happened is the owners finally made some real concessions that they were not willing to make earlier in the negotiations. They were banking on the players accepting those terms without Fehr being in the room (which was NEVER going to happen). The owners were/are super livid because they feel like they've given the most that they can/want to give and the players still want a better deal. I've seen many people say that the NHL has the players in a tough spot, I completely disagree. I think the NHLPA now has the owners is a tough spot. Anyone who's ever been in sales knows that you always start high because once your demands drop, there's no going back. That notion of everything is "off the table" is complete nonsense.

This is simply Fehr/players out bargaining Bettman/owners. *-- HERE The NHL will now have to give more to get a deal done, it's the truth. If not then there is no season and some of these guys will go overseas and play and still make money. Regardless the owners are hurt more by no NHL games/season then the players are. A lost season that might linger into next season might see some franchises not survive and the NHL will do everything in their power to make sure that's not the case, even if it means getting beat in these negotiations. Last but not least don't forget that the NHLPA has the decertification card to play which the owners want to avoid at all costs.

All that being said I think a deal gets done in the next 10 days and I've been pessimistic about the whole season from the start but believe it or not there was progress made the past few days. Don't let "the show" make you believe otherwise.
- dan9189

You had me up to *.

I think you are overestimating Fehr and underestimating the owners. He called their bluff and now they're going to call his. Unless he gets real (which he won't) or the players fire him (or meaningfully threaten to), the season is over.

I have negotiated recently against a "scorch the earth" attorney (in my own divorce). They give you two options and two options only. Bend over and take it or scorch the earth yourself. I assure you, guys like Ilitch, Rocky, Snider and others are going to go the nuclear route and widen the fissure in the PA. Translated: they will tank the season.

John,

It sure hurts to know you're right. It's interesting how I have mentally let go of the hockey league I used to love now. Too bad the Chicago Express couldn't have toughed it out till this year..... They'd be the poop out here in the 'burbs right now.......
- 2012FuryU14

Why did I TP your house or something?