The problem is that in this case, the employees are not just employees, but the product.

Professional sports are not a factory, or coffee shop. There certainly are players who are spoiled and greedy, but there's plenty of owners who are the same way, on an even more epic scale.

If the owners are in such dire straits, how does proposing a 7% cut in the players' revenue share solve the issue? The last lockout, the owners got a 24% cut in the revenue share of the players. This lockout is not about survival, it's about making a cash grab. If that many teams were in such serious financial trouble, why won't they open the books? Why is Bettman still the commish if so many teams are near financial collapse?

As for the reason that owners are willing to lockout players for so long, look at how quickly fans returned in 2005. Owners know that the fans will return, and pay higher ticket prices. Hell, even Bettman stated during the early weeks of the lockout that it wasn't about survival, it was that they felt they were paying too much.

I'm not laying blame solely at the owners & Bettman, either. Fehr's a dirtbag. The players are largely spoiled and greedy. Even if they were to accept the NHL's latest offer, they'd still have an average salary of around $2mm per year. My issue is much deeper. I'm at the point where I am apathetic. I don;t care who wins or loses the labor fight, because regardless, the real loser is the fan.

If there is a season, the NHL will not get a dime of my money. I will not attend a game, buy a jersey or other merchandise, will not order Center Ice, or pay for streaming from NHL.com for the duration of the shortened season. If the season is cancelled, there's a real good possibility I would be gone for good.
- Jsaquella

This is a great post. I hope more feel the same way.

The problem is that in this case, the employees are not just employees, but the product.

Professional sports are not a factory, or coffee shop. There certainly are players who are spoiled and greedy, but there's plenty of owners who are the same way, on an even more epic scale.

If the owners are in such dire straits, how does proposing a 7% cut in the players' revenue share solve the issue? The last lockout, the owners got a 24% cut in the revenue share of the players. This lockout is not about survival, it's about making a cash grab. If that many teams were in such serious financial trouble, why won't they open the books? Why is Bettman still the commish if so many teams are near financial collapse?

As for the reason that owners are willing to lockout players for so long, look at how quickly fans returned in 2005. Owners know that the fans will return, and pay higher ticket prices. Hell, even Bettman stated during the early weeks of the lockout that it wasn't about survival, it was that they felt they were paying too much.

I'm not laying blame solely at the owners & Bettman, either. Fehr's a dirtbag. The players are largely spoiled and greedy. Even if they were to accept the NHL's latest offer, they'd still have an average salary of around $2mm per year. My issue is much deeper. I'm at the point where I am apathetic. I don;t care who wins or loses the labor fight, because regardless, the real loser is the fan.

If there is a season, the NHL will not get a dime of my money. I will not attend a game, buy a jersey or other merchandise, will not order Center Ice, or pay for streaming from NHL.com for the duration of the shortened season. If the season is cancelled, there's a real good possibility I would be gone for good.
- Jsaquella

Well said. You nailed it.

I think the whole point of this hatred towards Fehr is that he lied to the players about both sides being close and bringing the players pension out of nowhere as being in problem in these negociations.

What screwed this all over is Fehr and that top 5% of players on 12 year contracts.
- Alexzanki

The players have been involved in the talks all along. Not just in the next room, but physically in the negotiation sessions, Kind of hard to lie to players when they're in the room with you.

Also, if it's 5% of players on those long term deals, why is it such a huge issue for the owners? The PA says they were willing to limit contracts to 8 years, so they're willing to outlaw the 11 & 12 year cap busters.

BJ Crombeen is quoted as saying the idea that Fehr told the players to hold out is 100% wrong. I'm not saying because Crombeen said it is true, but at least Crombeen put his name to the quote...as opposed to the 'unnamed player,' if that quote crystalized your view and that quote is wrong, well...so much for that

BJ Crombeen is quoted as saying the idea that Fehr told the players to hold out is 100% wrong. I'm not saying because Crombeen said it is true, but at least Crombeen put his name to the quote...as opposed to the 'unnamed player,' if that quote crystalized your view and that quote is wrong, well...so much for that
- k

Dater has updated the information. The player who talked to him was NOT involved in the latest negotiations(i.e. was not in the room) and was told by another player that Fehr wanted to wait for a better deal.

Player in question also stressed to Dater, via Dater's twitter feed, that he stands behind Fehr and is not trying to break ranks

BJ Crombeen is quoted as saying the idea that Fehr told the players to hold out is 100% wrong. I'm not saying because Crombeen said it is true, but at least Crombeen put his name to the quote...as opposed to the 'unnamed player,' if that quote crystalized your view and that quote is wrong, well...so much for that
- k

well obviously we should believe the sheep over the guy trying who is actually hoping to play hockey.....

Not really - facts are facts, three "lockouts" in 18 years, Bettman in place for all three and Fehr has been involved in one. There was a lost season in 2004 - it hasn't mattered who was heading up the NHLPA, we have gone through the same nightmare each time.
- MadCap2008

... ROFL! "facts"?

Where are the facts about Fehr's history.

When was the last time Fehr negotiated a CBA?

Dater has updated the information. The player who talked to him was NOT involved in the latest negotiations(i.e. was not in the room) and was told by another player that Fehr wanted to wait for a better deal.

Player in question also stressed to Dater, via Dater's twitter feed, that he stands behind Fehr and is not trying to break ranks
- Jsaquella

riiiiight

There was no damage control going on there. The players are solid, everything is fine. They are HAPPY and excited that they have lost money they will never recover. They are definitely convinced that this union is doing what's best for them.

No, really.

BJ Crombeen is quoted as saying the idea that Fehr told the players to hold out is 100% wrong. I'm not saying because Crombeen said it is true, but at least Crombeen put his name to the quote...as opposed to the 'unnamed player,' if that quote crystalized your view and that quote is wrong, well...so much for that
- k

That wasn't spin or damage control... naaaaa

it's not even a grammar issue. its the complete wrong (frank)ing word.......
- muffin_man

I worked with a kid who thought "supposed to" was "spose to." He even wrote it that way and was skeptical when I told him what it was. That's government schools for you, no matter what country.

I agree. They are not saving lives. And I agree that they shouldn't make so much more than a doctor to use an example. But the fact is nobody pays thousands of dollars for a ticket to watch a doc work. We should blame society for that, myself included. But I don't blame the players for being able to make that kind of money because people pay so much to see their talents.
- yttrohs

I wish people would stop using words like greed, millionaires, billionaires with negative connotations. Ideas like"shouldn't make more than doctors and firefighters." The truth is pro athletes get to cash in for an average of around 3 years. Doctors can cash in for 40. However, that isn't even the point. Every product or service in a free society is "worth" whatever someone is willing to pay. There is nothing nefarious or evil in that. It's just how it is and is supposed to be. It's like saying a CEO isn't worth 30 million when you have no clue how to be a CEO. Wealth envy is among the worst of the evil men do.

riiiiight

There was no damage control going on there. The players are solid, everything is fine. They are HAPPY and excited that they have lost money they will never recover. They are definitely convinced that this union is doing what's best for them.

No, really.
- NightTrain_AlMo

I'm sure guys are frustrated, and have spoken off the cuff...kind of like Bettman who was shaking with anger at his PC.

Anytime you have 700+ people, there's going to be a few who have a different opinion.

You can say what you want about Fehr but the bottom line is to get the BEST deal he can for the players. Not just take whatever deal is on the table when media and fans want hockey to start. And by the way, Fehr hasn't ruined baseball. Attendance and revenues were at record highs during the late 90's. Ask any baseball player in the last 20 years what they think of Fehr. They love him. He Always gets the best deal for the players. That's his job. End of story.
- yttrohs

Baseball's viewership has been sinking since the 80s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...Series_television_ratings

And again, Fehr wasn't involved in the 1994/2004 lockouts - why does this 2012 lockout seemingly bother you and others more than those ? Bettman is the constant.
- MadCap2008

In his career as a lawyer, Fehr has been involved in 8 negotiations. And 6 of those 8 have involved work stoppages. This is what he does.

In his career as a lawyer, Fehr has been involved in 8 negotiations. And 6 of those 8 have involved work stoppages. This is what he does.
- prock

In Bettman's career as commissioner, he has been involved in 3 negotiations. All three resulted in work stoppages. Sure seems like both sides do that.

... ROFL! "facts"?

Where are the facts about Fehr's history.

When was the last time Fehr negotiated a CBA?
- NightTrain_AlMo

So which fact are you disputing ? Was Fehr involved in '94 and '04 lockouts ? You guys can hate on Fehr (and with some justification), but Bettman is the constant here.

In Bettman's career as commissioner, he has been involved in 3 negotiations. All three resulted in work stoppages. Sure seems like both sides do that.
- Jsaquella

Bingo - can't understand why some are solely focused on Fehr. Did these people sleep through the lost season ?

Bingo - can't understand why some are solely focused on Fehr. Did these people sleep through the lost season ?
- MadCap2008

Really? That's EXACTLY what YOU'RE doing.

So which fact are you disputing ? Was Fehr involved in '94 and '04 lockouts ? You guys can hate on Fehr (and with some justification), but Bettman is the constant here.
- MadCap2008

At least JS was impartial, and said it's both sides. You're just biased and silly. Trying to say it's Bettman, and Bettman is the constant, when nearly every time Fehr gets involved, there are lockouts and strikes, is just silly.

Really? That's EXACTLY what YOU'RE doing.



At least JS was impartial, and said it's both sides. You're just biased and silly. Trying to say it's Bettman, and Bettman is the constant, when nearly every time Fehr gets involved, there are lockouts and strikes, is just silly.
- prock

Neither side is sympathetic, and I don't particularly like Fehr either. Some of YOU seem biased in the manner in which you are accusing me.

Neither side is sympathetic, and I don't particularly like Fehr either. Some of YOU seem biased in the manner in which you are accusing me.
- MadCap2008

I'm not a fan of Bettman, but I do recognize that in order for the league to be healthy, player's salaries have to significantly come down. As a league, the NHL pulls in the least revenue, has the least lucrative TV contracts, and yet still has the highest % of revenues going to player's salaries.

I may not be a fan of Bettman, but I see him as at least fighting for something that I think is necessary for the good of the league. When he took over as commissioner, the state of affairs in the NHL were even worse, and I feel, wouldn't have lasted much longer that way. It wasn't feasible to continue that way.

I don't like Bettman, and I don't like Fehr. But at least Bettman is accomplishing something that is necessary and good for the league. Fehr is fighting against that. These players are not hard done by. As it is currently, NHL teams are not a good investment, and it's best for the league if that changes.