I am saying: do you really think the union would go with a change like that? No way - because they are all about protecting the stars. In the same way, their objection to the contract limit is really about protecting the stars, not about protecting the middle class player.

I feel like I am banging my head against a brick wall....
- niedermayer27

No they wouldn't go for a change like that. And what would be wrong with standing up for the star players in that situation? Nothing! They are as much part of the Union as the 4th line grinder is. You want to apply the broad brush that if they would stand up for the star player in that one situation, then they obviously don't care about anyone else. Well that's just not the case.

Simple common sense.

well can you base this on anything? or are you just a miller fanboy? he hasnt put up the numbers of other goalies, and he is only good for stretches, the others on your list have shown they can play top level throughout a whole season

thomas showed he can step it up in the playoffs, lundqvist has played very well in the playoffs?

what exactly has miller done?
- dmarsden2988

Miller was very good for the Sabres in the playoffs in 2007 and 2010.

He almost carried them to the Finals in 2007 when half of the team was out injured.

I know that is 5 years ago, but still. It's not like he is unproven in the playoffs.

well can you base this on anything? or are you just a miller fanboy? he hasnt put up the numbers of other goalies, and he is only good for stretches, the others on your list have shown they can play top level throughout a whole season

thomas showed he can step it up in the playoffs, lundqvist has played very well in the playoffs?

what exactly has miller done?
- dmarsden2988

Miller has beaten Lundquist head to head in the playoffs .

Next ?

I find it funny that the people who actually spew this 5-year fight protects the middle class crap... are also probably the people who wanted a "free market" in 2004. They are probably also the people who think decertification is a real threat.

Yeah, de-certification would really help the middle class hockey player. It would help them understand what it is like to live on a fraction of what they make now.

anyone watching the 12/12/12 sandy concert?

No they wouldn't go for a change like that. And what would be wrong with standing up for the star players in that situation? Nothing! They are as much part of the Union as the 4th line grinder is. You want to apply the broad brush that if they would stand up for the star player in that one situation, then they obviously don't care about anyone else. Well that's just not the case.

Simple common sense.
- MJL

Absolute garbage and double talk. More talking around the issue, and more wilfully ignoring reality and creating stuff to support your argument.

I find it funny that the people who actually spew this 5-year fight protects the middle class crap... are also probably the people who wanted a "free market" in 2004. They are probably also the people who think certification is a real threat.

Yeah, de-certification would really help the middle class hockey player. It would help them understand what it is like to live on a fraction of what they make now.
- Aetherial

I want it...

I find it funny that the people who actually spew this 5-year fight protects the middle class crap... are also probably the people who wanted a "free market" in 2004. They are probably also the people who think certification is a real threat.

Yeah, de-certification would really help the middle class hockey player. It would help them understand what it is like to live on a fraction of what they make now.
- Aetherial

Wrong. You need to start using "simple common sense".

Make the most concessions? What concessions are they making? The players and Fehr have done the most compromising by far. The NHL has done very little. They've just agreed to take less.
Do you know how ridiculous you sound when you you compare Fehr to a schmuck off the street?
And what the NHLPA has accomplished here is going to have lasting implications for many years in the future. If they had came into this and caved into the League, do you grasp what that would do for future of the players. What happens after this CBA is over, and the next one. And they were willing to give up some salary this year to do it.
- MJL

The 10 yr deal works out better for the players because @ 50/50 the players are still getting too much.

It should be closer to a 60/40 split for the owners.

At least they lock in the deal long term.

I agree the individual contracts should be a bit longer.... maybe 6 yrs, and 8 yrs for returning to your team.

You forgot James Reimer
- niedermayer27

Of course.

Silly me.

Miller has beaten Lundquist head to head in the playoffs .

Next ?
- BuffaloHardHat

so the criteria is that as long as you beat another goalie in a playoff series makes them better?

All completely unproven. A theory is not fact. It's a theory. Based on the number of contracts that exceed 5 years at present, it's a baseless theory at that.
- MnGump

Yep all unproven. But yet pretty much the entire Hockey World has come to that conclusion. And how many players have 5 year contracts at the present, doesn't matter. That was all done in a CBA environment where there wasn't a 5% variance, and a 5 year term limit.

so the criteria is that as long as you beat another goalie in a playoff series makes them better?
- dmarsden2988

2010 proved that Antti Niemi is better than Rinne.

anyone watching the 12/12/12 sandy concert?
- dmarsden2988

BRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so the criteria is that as long as you beat another goalie in a playoff series makes them better?
- dmarsden2988

Stop trying to make yourself right.

You asked what has Miller done for the Sabres? Lundquist cant even beat Miller head to head in a playoff series.

Well I answered you and also what he did for all of us Americans.

Now again , what has Lundquist exactly done for any team ?

I'll wait.

The 10 yr deal works out better for the players because @ 50/50 the players are still getting too much.

It should be closer to a 60/40 split for the owners.

At least they lock in the deal long term.

I agree the individual contracts should be a bit longer.... maybe 6 yrs, and 8 yrs for returning to your team.
- jimmc7722

I think 50/50 is fair. I would like to see an longer CBA then 5 years. I don't buy the PA's argument about negotiating for future players. Future players come into the League all the time that didn't have a say in the negotiations. 8 years would be a good number. I wouldn't have a problem with 10 either. A whole decade without a lockout would be nice.

That's your opinion which is fine.

Miller pretty much single handed won that silver for us Americans.

I respect Lundquist but every important game including their last playoff series against one another they have played head to head , Miller usually prevails.

So I dont know what you are getting at when you ask what has Miller done for us ?

What has Lundquist done for the Rangers for that matter?
- BuffaloHardHat

if your going to bring in the olympics, hank won gold

pretty sure it is unanimous that hank is better than miller

Yep all unproven. But yet pretty much the entire Hockey World has come to that conclusion. And how many players have 5 year contracts at the present, doesn't matter. That was all done in a CBA environment where there was a 5% variance, and a 5 year term limit.
- MJL

You say it, so it is true.

I hope you are enjoying running away from actual facts and relevant discussion

if your going to bring in the olympics, hank won gold

pretty sure it is unanimous that hank is better than miller
- dmarsden2988

Unanimous with who exactly?

It's not unanimous but whatever helps you sleep.

I'll take Miller against Lundquist in a playoff series any day.

I think 50/50 is fair. I would like to see an longer CBA then 5 years. I don't buy the PA's argument about negotiating for future players. Future players come into the League all the time that didn't have a say in the negotiations. 8 years would be a good number. I wouldn't have a problem with 10 either. A whole decade without a lockout would be nice.
- MJL

If you add up the things the PA is fighting on...

Make whole
Minimum cap
Guaranteed no dollar decreases in salary year to year
no 5 year minimum
amnesty clauses
5 year CBA

the PA will never actually land to 50/50 within 5 years, ESPECIALLY during the likelihood of decreasing or flat revenues.

Then after 5 years, they strike.

So EVERY ONE of the PA's arguments is designed to make sure they never get to 50/50

... and yet, they can still claim they are giving so much to go from a 57% share (that they don't have anymore) down to 50%.

Everything they have fed to the public is a heaping pile of BS and some people here are chowing down on it.

Stop trying to make yourself right.

You asked what has Miller done for the Sabres? Lundquist cant even beat Miller head to head in a playoff series.

Well I answered you and also what he did for all of us Americans.

Now again , what has Lundquist exactly done for any team ?

I'll wait.
- BuffaloHardHat

gold compared to silver for one in the olympics

if we are going to base things off of playoff series head to head then you can say that several goalies are better than HOF goalies, just because their team won, that doesnt equate to them being better

fact is neither miller or lundqvist has won the cup

but you can go look at stats, and lundqvist has performed both in regular season and playoffs, miller has played well but i wouldnt say better

if your going to bring in the olympics, hank won gold

pretty sure it is unanimous that hank is better than miller
- dmarsden2988

It shouldn't even be that difficult.. Is miller good? Absolutely. Top five? Maybe. Better then Quick? Does miller have a cup? Did he carry the team on his back when most nights we scored .. a goal? Maybe two if we were lucky? Did he lead the league in shutouts?

gold compared to silver for one in the olympics

if we are going to base things off of playoff series head to head then you can say that several goalies are better than HOF goalies, just because their team won, that doesnt equate to them being better

fact is neither miller or lundqvist has won the cup

but you can go look at stats, and lundqvist has performed both in regular season and playoffs, miller has played well but i wouldnt say better
- dmarsden2988

Miller is a good goalie and I would love to have him on the Leafs.

He is not Lundqvist though. Lundqvist is better.

Wrong. You need to start using "simple common sense".
- niedermayer27

The funniest part is, if you counter him with simple common sense, he will just switch to semantics, change the subject, run away... and then spew the same crap on some other thread.

Miller is a good goalie and I would love to have him on the Leafs.

He is not Lundqvist though. Lundqvist is better.
- Aetherial

Anyone would love to have miller. But he's not the best in the league. That's borderline insane.