speaking of Bobby Ryan.....an actually trade that was offered and I'm 100% sure about was Vanek for Ryan straight up.....

I talked to two NHL scouts on the deal.....one said I'd do that in a second if I was Buffalo, the other said just the opposite...I'd do it in a second if I was Anaheim.

Just goes to show just how we the fans look at players differently so do NHL scouts who evealuate players for a living.
- Homer

I would go with Ryan simply because he comes at a cheaper price. But I don't think there is much between the 2 players.

miller has missed time lately due to injuries though
- dmarsden2988

he's had plenty of time to mend

Owners put last offer back on the table but it had to be accepted in full. Players rejected it.

Cancel the season...please!

Source: Peter Maher - The Fan960 in Calgary.
- whipper334

im with you, im over this season, if it came back id watch but i wouldnt be as excited or care as much as id normally would, just wait till next season and have a full 82 game season

I would go with Ryan simply because he comes at a cheaper price. But I don't think there is much between the 2 players.
- niedermayer27

he does now, but probably wont for long

The other day I was pondering about the lockout...

Yes, because having a lock out that lasts for half the season and possibly the whole season is winning. Good job Fehr.
- moondawg

Didn't say anybody is winning. Neither the NHL or the NHLPA is winning in my opinion. Nor can they win at this point in my opinion. Damage has been done.

im with you, im over this season, if it came back id watch but i wouldnt be as excited or care as much as id normally would, just wait till next season and have a full 82 game season
- dmarsden2988

Yup! How ya been?

he's had plenty of time to mend
- Homer

i know but compared to the others he has been injured more frequently it seems, so if your going to base which goalie you think would get hurt first among miller, lundqvist or rinne then miller would be my choice.....and i hope none of them get injured

Didn't say anybody is winning. Neither the NHL or the NHLPA is winning in my opinion. Nor can they win at this point in my opinion. Damage has been done.
- MJL

Yup! How ya been?
- whipper334

busy as (frank)

did you hear about my sister and her baby moving out coz her ex was sharpening machetes with the baby on his lap?

Owners will get massive gains in all areas or the players will never play again

these teams are a hobby for these guys they won't come begging the players to come back
- flashfire

That's why the changed their Make Whole offer how many times? How many times has the NHL intimated this is their final offer, only then to come back with a better offer? Let's see if the NHL is indeed willing to die on a specific hill as Daly put it. Let's see from the last offer the NHL made. What changes are made going forward.

busy as (frank)

did you hear about my sister and her baby moving out coz her ex was sharpening machetes with the baby on his lap?
- dmarsden2988

What?

And half of the owners won't lose money this year, if they don't play. Whats your point? It's cheaper to not have a season than lose millions.

But yeah, Fehr got them right where he wants them. Next they'll cancel the season, let me guess another win for Fehr.
- moondawg

They won't make money either. Which is kind of the whole idea. They also won't grow their brand and their fan base. Which is also the idea. You want to make the NHL better, have some of the struggling teams increase in those areas. To be able to increase revenue. That's kind of what my point is.

But yea, Bettman's plan is working out great for that. A cancelled Season isn't good for anyone.

What?
- whipper334

check pm

he does now, but probably wont for long
- Homer

He's locked up for another 3 years. Right now I would still take Ryan.

They won't make money either. Which is kind of the whole idea. They also won't grow their brand and their fan base. Which is also the idea. You want to make the NHL better, have some of the struggling teams increase in those areas. To be able to increase revenue. That's kind of what my point is.

But yea, Bettman's plan is working out great for that. A cancelled Season isn't good for anyone.
- MJL

No, it sucks. But, if I was a business owner and my business made enough revenues to make good money, but I kept coming up in the red, I would be willing to take a years loss of brand and loyalty (one that is pretty protected), to get the white elephant on the books under control.

They won't make money either. Which is kind of the whole idea. They also won't grow their brand and their fan base. Which is also the idea. You want to make the NHL better, have some of the struggling teams increase in those areas. To be able to increase revenue. That's kind of what my point is.

But yea, Bettman's plan is working out great for that. A cancelled Season isn't good for anyone.
- MJL

This is what I don't understand about your logic MJL. You bash Bettman for prolonging the lockout, yet you praise Fehr for it and at the same time make statements like this one.

You can't have it both ways, either Fehr is doing right by the players for prolonging the lockout or he's hurting them worse by not taking what is quite frankly a reasonable offer. Bettman is doing what is called negotiating when he compromises on things like sweetening the make whole offer, what exactly is Fehr doing? Aside from prolonging the lockout to flex his ego a bit and trying to recover money he's already lost for the players.

Well unless I'm the last to know I think the lockout is still underway. So what is your point? Fehr has cost the players more money than he will have gained. When all is said and done, the NHL will have compromised a bit in order to get a deal done, but they're getting almost everything they wanted are they not? Save the make whole money which may not have been put back on the table yet as far as anyone knows.

If this whole thing boils down to contract limits and length of contract with or without the make whole money, I think Fehr failed miserably all things considered.
- MnGump

My point is simply that the NHL hasn't gotten their wish. Which was to lockout the players and crush the Union. And completely demolish the Union into giving them everything they wanted. When all is said and done, the NHL will have compromised far more then it ever intended to. So no, the NHL is not going to get everything they wanted. And I doubt very seriously when all is said and done. That the prevailing opinion of pundits covering the League, will be that Fehr failed miserably.

He's locked up for another 3 years. Right now I would still take Ryan.
- niedermayer27

I probably will too and I'm sure you watch him a ton more than I do. I scout I talked to that likes Vanek better said that Ryan has a lot of holes in game if you really watch him..idk

It also looks like the 3rd and 4th liners have met their match in Fehr also.
- duxcup07

Which means what? That some players won't play again? Happens every year. You don't put the means of the few before the many.

He's locked up for another 3 years. Right now I would still take Ryan.
- niedermayer27

I didnt think it was that long....but yeah, that is substantial

No, it sucks. But, if I was a business owner and my business made enough revenues to make good money, but I kept coming up in the red, I would be willing to take a years loss of brand and loyalty (one that is pretty protected), to get the white elephant on the books under control.
- moondawg

You're assuming that his lockout is only going to cost a years worth of brand and loyalty. If I was a business Owner I'd look into far more then player salaries as to why my business isn't where it needs to be.

This is what I don't understand about your logic MJL. You bash Bettman for prolonging the lockout, yet you praise Fehr for it and at the same time make statements like this one.

You can't have it both ways, either Fehr is doing right by the players for prolonging the lockout or he's hurting them worse by not taking what is quite frankly a reasonable offer. Bettman is doing what is called negotiating when he compromises on things like sweetening the make whole offer, what exactly is Fehr doing? Aside from prolonging the lockout to flex his ego a bit and trying to recover money he's already lost for the players.
- MnGump

Actually that comment was just in response to the post I was replying to. If you follow my comments, I very rarely criticize Bettman. I very rarely even refer to him. I refer to the Owners or the NHL.
Really, I think it you that wants to have it both ways. Why has Bettman and the owners sweetened the Make Whole offer? Couldn't possibly have anything to do with Fehr's negotiation skills, could it?

Which means what? That some players won't play again? Happens every year. You don't put the means of the few before the many.
- MJL

Which is why one of the onuses of this negotiation is centered on the 0.05% of players that are playing under contracts of 90+mil over 12 years

Stop it

Which means what? That some players won't play again? Happens every year. You don't put the means of the few before the many.
- MJL

Exactly, so why is Fehr prolonging the lockout over an issue that really only directly affects the top 12 to 13% of the league? I'm talking about the 5 year contract limits.