You're assuming that his lockout is only going to cost a years worth of brand and loyalty. If I was a business Owner I'd look into far more then player salaries as to why my business isn't where it needs to be.
- MJL

I can't see the future, so assumptions are all I have.

Exactly, so why is Fehr prolonging the lockout over an issue that really only directly affects the top 12 to 13% of the league? I'm talking about the 5 year contract limits.
- MnGump

Actually that comment was just in response to the post I was replying to. If you follow my comments, I very rarely criticize Bettman. I very rarely even refer to him. I refer to the Owners or the NHL.
Really, I think it you that wants to have it both ways. Why has Bettman and the owners sweetened the Make Whole offer? Couldn't possibly have anything to do with Fehr's negotiation skills, could it?
- MJL

Simply because the NHL knows how to negotiate. They are in the power position so it's up to them to make the most concessions in good faith based on softer issues surrounding their terms. They understand that if any season is to be saved they must make attempts to compromise. How has Fehr faired in that area?

Standing pat and being petulant and bullheaded is not negotiating. Any schmuck off the street can accomplish that. All Fehr has accomplished is losing the players more money. Even if Bettman continues to increase the make whole offer, it's not going to be enough to make up for money already lost.

I probably will too and I'm sure you watch him a ton more than I do. I scout I talked to that likes Vanek better said that Ryan has a lot of holes in game if you really watch him..idk
- Homer

Oh yeah, he has some holes in his game. The biggest problem with Ryan is that he plays too much on the perimeter, and is unwilling to go to the 'dirty' areas in front of the net. A guy like Corey Perry does this to perfection, and is a big reason he has scored 50 goals. Ryan has all the goods to be a 50 goal scorer, he just needs to start putting his big body on the line and get a bit dirty instead of just trying to snipe from the perimeter.

Which is why one of the onuses of this negotiation is centered on the 0.05% of players that are playing under contracts of 90+mil over 12 years

Stop it
- Giroux_Is_God

You're incorrect in that assumption in my opinion.

Exactly, so why is Fehr prolonging the lockout over an issue that really only directly affects the top 12 to 13% of the league? I'm talking about the 5 year contract limits.
- MnGump

Because you're incorrect in that. The contract term limit affects a lot more players then that.

I can't see the future, so assumptions are all I have.
- moondawg

it's an unreasonable assumption that the damage of this lockout could reach far past one year?

Actually that comment was just in response to the post I was replying to. If you follow my comments, I very rarely criticize Bettman. I very rarely even refer to him. I refer to the Owners or the NHL.
Really, I think it you that wants to have it both ways. Why has Bettman and the owners sweetened the Make Whole offer? Couldn't possibly have anything to do with Fehr's negotiation skills, could it?
- MJL

I'm not sure what 'negotiation skills' you are talking about, other than giving nothing instead of meeting in the middle. It might be a good tactic considering the NHL keeps upping their offers, but I wouldn't call it skill.

1. Hank
2. Flower
3. Quick
4. Lou
5. Miller


Done.

You're incorrect in that assumption in my opinion.
- MJL

Maybe instead of the 5 year contract limit they should lower the individual salary %.

Instead of a player being able to make 20% of their team's cap hit, lower it to 12%. That leaves more money for all players and ensures that contracts do not get out of control. Win-win.

Of course for the NHLPA to agree to this that would assume that Fehr is not working for the top 10% of players....

Simply because the NHL knows how to negotiate. They are in the power position so it's up to them to make the most concessions in good faith based on softer issues surrounding their terms. They understand that if any season is to be saved they must make attempts to compromise. How has Fehr faired in that area?

Standing pat and being petulant and bullheaded is not negotiating. Any schmuck off the street can accomplish that. All Fehr has accomplished is losing the players more money. Even if Bettman continues to increase the make whole offer, it's not going to be enough to make up for money already lost.
- MnGump

Make the most concessions? What concessions are they making? The players and Fehr have done the most compromising by far. The NHL has done very little. They've just agreed to take less.
Do you know how ridiculous you sound when you you compare Fehr to a schmuck off the street?
And what the NHLPA has accomplished here is going to have lasting implications for many years in the future. If they had came into this and caved into the League, do you grasp what that would do for future of the players. What happens after this CBA is over, and the next one. And they were willing to give up some salary this year to do it.

I'm not sure what 'negotiation skills' you are talking about, other than giving nothing instead of meeting in the middle. It might be a good tactic considering the NHL keeps upping their offers, but I wouldn't call it skill.
- niedermayer27

So the players have given nothing?

Maybe instead of the 5 year contract limit they should lower the individual salary %.

Instead of a player being able to make 20% of their team's cap hit, lower it to 12%. That leaves more money for all players and ensures that contracts do not get out of control. Win-win.

Of course for the NHLPA to agree to this that would assume that Fehr is not working for the top 10% of players....
- niedermayer27

Totally different topic. And a totally different concession. Has zero to do with how the 5 year contract term affects the players. Everyone writing about that states that it affects the middle class players. Every player asked about it, states that it affects the middle class player.

you can say that about 20 goalies though....any goalie who is on top of their game can be considered top tier...problem with Miller is he is a head case and not consistant enough.
- Homer

I agree with Miller being a headcase sometimes which is why I said "when he is on the top of his game" .

2O goalies?

Nah. I only put 4 other goalies in the same breath as Miller.

The Kings goalie , his name escapes me is not one of them.

Yes he had one good year. When I see more then one I will put him in Millers league.

So the players have given nothing?
- MJL

This is not what I am saying. I am saying they have not negotiated.

Of course the players are going to have to give here in comparison to the last CBA. Everybody knows this. But the players have not added anything to the process. The owners introduced the make whole concept. The owners put forward the majority of offers. The owners have introduced basically everything. Fehr has just sat back and rejected offer after offer, waiting for the best offer to come along. Which may be a good tactic, but doesn't take a lot of skill.

It is also why we will not see a deal until 1 day before the drop dead date for cancelling the season. The owners keep giving more in their offers, so Fehr will keep this thing going as long as possible so the owners can keep giving.

I agree with Miller being a headcase sometimes which is why I said "when he is on the top of his game" .

2O goalies?

Nah. I only put 4 other goalies in the same breath as Miller.

The Kings goalie , his name escapes me is not one of them.

Yes he had one good year. When I see more then one I will put him in Millers league.
- BuffaloHardHat

Totally different topic. And a totally different concession. Has zero to do with how the 5 year contract term affects the players. Everyone writing about that states that it affects the middle class players. Every player asked about it, states that it affects the middle class player.
- MJL

Are you kidding? It really is not a different topic.

The idea of the 5 year limit is to control contracts. The argument by the NHLPA is that this method will hurt middle class players. Instead, lowering the individual % a player can make helps to control these runaway contracts we are seeing, as well as no adverse effects on the middle class players.

I forgot to mention, you do this in combination with making cap hit = salary paid.

This is not what I am saying. I am saying they have not negotiated.

Of course the players are going to have to give here in comparison to the last CBA. Everybody knows this. But the players have not added anything to the process. The owners introduced the make whole concept. The owners put forward the majority of offers. The owners have introduced basically everything. Fehr has just sat back and rejected offer after offer, waiting for the best offer to come along. Which may be a good tactic, but doesn't take a lot of skill.

It is also why we will not see a deal until 1 day before the drop dead date for cancelling the season. The owners keep giving more in their offers, so he will keep this thing going as long as possible so the owners can keep giving.
- niedermayer27

I have news for you. Using tactics that get's your opposition to keep increasing their offer to you. And moving more towards your side. Is negotiating. That's the whole idea. And Fehr has done a masterful job. It's laughable that people think what Fehr has done doesn't take any skill. History and the prevailing opinion that is written about these negotiations will not support that thinking.

1. Hank
2. Flower
3. Quick
4. Lou
5. Miller


Done.
- Deadmau55

Price

Because you're incorrect in that. The contract term limit affects a lot more players then that.
- MJL

Incorrect? How and what are you basing this on? Because as it stands right now, on average only about 3% of each team have contracts with higher than a 5 year term. That's including all the latest big deals that happened right before the lockout.

miller has missed time lately due to injuries though
- dmarsden2988

From getting cheap shotted by Lucic?

Wait till Scott gets to see Lucic face to face for the first time this season .

We here in Buffalo have not forgotten about that dirty hit by Lucic on Miller.

Exactly the resaon why we picked up Scott. Cant wait to see Lucic get ragdolled by Scott!

Are you kidding? It really is not a different topic.

The idea of the 5 year limit is to control contracts. The argument by the NHLPA is that this method will hurt middle class players. Instead, lowering the individual % a player can make helps to control these runaway contracts we are seeing, as well as no adverse effects on the middle class players.

I forgot to mention, you do this in combination with making cap hit = salary paid.
- niedermayer27

My point was simply this. If Fehr and the players would reject the maximum salary percentage change you proposed, they then would be thinking about the top 10%.

I have news for you. Using tactics that get's your opposition to keep increasing their offer to you. And moving more towards your side. Is negotiating. That's the whole idea. And Fehr has done a masterful job. It's laughable that people think what Fehr has done doesn't take any skill. History and the prevailing opinion that is written about these negotiations will not support that thinking.
- MJL

Exactly what skill does it take to sit back and offer nothing?

Masterful.

From getting cheap shotted by Lucic?

Wait till Scott gets to see Lucic face to face for the first time this season .

We here in Buffalo have not forgotten about that dirty hit by Lucic on Miller.

Exactly the resaon why we picked up Scott. Cant wait to see Lucic get ragdolled by Scott!
- BuffaloHardHat

Pronouns are your friend, bro....

I agree with Miller being a headcase sometimes which is why I said "when he is on the top of his game" .

2O goalies?

Nah. I only put 4 other goalies in the same breath as Miller.

The Kings goalie , his name escapes me is not one of them.

Yes he had one good year. When I see more then one I will put him in Millers league.
- BuffaloHardHat

yes miller is a good player, but to say he is top 5 nah and to say quick (la goalie) only had one great year, well miller only had one great year and the rest above average

the sabres have made the playoffs what every other year? typically a top 5 goalie would be able to get you to the playoffs pretty much every year unless the team in front is pathetic, and the sabres aren't/weren't pathetic

id rank kipper above miller
so rinne lundqvist, kipper, fleury, quick, luongo, and you can include price in there as better than miller