Columbus can do nothing....either youre a hockey town or you're not...so my answer to that is relocate.
- Homer

You might be right about that. But I don't see them relocating anytime soon. So they probably have to look in another direction. They hired John Davidson, so we'll see what he can do there.

How about we change course. I think by this time, everyone has pretty much stated who they blame, which side they support, etc. Nobody is going to change their minds.
So a different subject. Besides what the NHL wants in the CBA negotiations to help the League financially. Totally separate from the CBA issues. How does the League, or the team itself. Improve so that each franchise is viable, and increased revenue. What does a team like Columbus have to do to build it's fan base, to increase sponsor interest, and help increase revenue?
- MJL

Bust out each sides "war chest", refinance the "low income" franchises and put ALL players back into a pool for draft. Blow it up completely and reset.

How about we change course. I think by this time, everyone has pretty much stated who they blame, which side they support, etc. Nobody is going to change their minds.
So a different subject. Besides what the NHL wants in the CBA negotiations to help the League financially. Totally separate from the CBA issues. How does the League, or the team itself. Improve so that each franchise is viable, and increased revenue. What does a team like Columbus have to do to build it's fan base, to increase sponsor interest, and help increase revenue?
- MJL

Too easy. Win some hockey games and get to the PO's.

At least they are on the right track, not havingDoug MacLean ruin all of their prospects.

Players really need to ask themselves; is holding out for an extra dollar in mid-January really better than signing a deal now, and getting a couple more pay cheques?

Because the answer is no.
- Atomic Wedgie

Exactly the point I was trying to make earlier. Ek says these Fehr loving players ready to fall on their career swords for the benefit of themselves and future players, but for what? A few percentage points? An extra year of contract limitation? Makes no sense.

the players are the ones holding all of this up.


If they want to play in the best league in the world, you play under the guidelines of the people who own the league.... which is the owners. Bettman is just the voice of all the collective owners.

Owners have much more items to worry about by way of cost, and what I see is if players cannot accept the fact the owners have every right to get back their own dollars, that is where the failure is happening.

and no, I don't feel bad for players who are standing behind Fehr with 500$ watches on, expensive suits, telling me about how hard they are going to have it when they have to take a smaller amount of millions from the owners pockets in order for their "peers" to have better futures.

The league won't have a future if they don't agree the owners terms, simple as that.

How about we change course. I think by this time, everyone has pretty much stated who they blame, which side they support, etc. Nobody is going to change their minds.
So a different subject. Besides what the NHL wants in the CBA negotiations to help the League financially. Totally separate from the CBA issues. How does the League, or the team itself. Improve so that each franchise is viable, and increased revenue. What does a team like Columbus have to do to build it's fan base, to increase sponsor interest, and help increase revenue?
- MJL

Winning would help!! Their fan base is fine!

Too easy. Win some hockey games and get to the PO's.

At least they are on the right track, not havingDoug MacLean ruin all of their prospects.
- moondawg

Winning is what draws anything.

Rats in Florida, Thunder sticks in TB, Whiteouts in PHX... when those teams won they drew, when they don't they won't... simple formula.

the players are the ones holding all of this up.


If they want to play in the best league in the world, you play under the guidelines of the people who own the league.... which is the owners. Bettman is just the voice of all the collective owners.

Owners have much more items to worry about by way of cost, and what I see is if players cannot accept the fact the owners have every right to get back their own dollars, that is where the failure is happening.

and no, I don't feel bad for players who are standing behind Fehr with 500$ watches on, expensive suits, telling me about how hard they are going to have it when they have to take a smaller amount of millions from the owners pockets in order for their "piers" to have better futures.

The league won't have a future if they don't agree the owners terms, simple as that.
- BooBoo997

peers*

Winning would help!! Their fan base is fine!
- Jacketbum

Columbus does have a good fan base. As a wings fan, I can vouche for the energy in that building... even when the Wings are not playing them.

As far McLean "ruining" prospect, Howson's record isn't doing any better. Their real issue, they tried to build around a goal scorer... you can't do that, they are way too streaky.

What's the constant from the last three stoppages? Bettman. The players have had 3 diff execs. We will be locked out every time the CBA expires because the owners always want more. The players were content on playing with the old CBA's in 04-05 and this year. Owners will never be satisified.
- trolleytracks

Interestingly, you begin with Bettman and conclude with the owners collectively; it seems to me that the constant is more the fact that the owners have kept Bettman employed as commissioner. The real constant, then, is the owners (though, of course, they're not all the same from lockout to lockout, I realize that). But I am not sure what follows from that. As I said, I have no illusions about the owners--they want things done on their terms, I understand that, and I don't have a problem with that.

This is no ordinary labor dispute, since the players aren't really laborers/workers in the ordinary sense, and the owners certainly (from my perspective) have not and are not being treated unjustly (in a former life, I was a Teamster with UPS, experienced a strike, and later I worked in management with UPS--I've been on both sides). I don't begrudge the players one moment for having a union, I just don't sympathize a whole lot with their position in all of this. I suspect that it's hard to do for most of us, quite frankly.

We all make choices. I know the players have worked hard to be where they are. It's just difficult to sympathize with their "plight"--because it's no real plight.

peers*
- hefnerta

fixed, hockeybuzz autocorrect.

the players are the ones holding all of this up.


If they want to play in the best league in the world, you play under the guidelines of the people who own the league.... which is the owners. Bettman is just the voice of all the collective owners.

Owners have much more items to worry about by way of cost, and what I see is if players cannot accept the fact the owners have every right to get back their own dollars, that is where the failure is happening.

and no, I don't feel bad for players who are standing behind Fehr with 500$ watches on, expensive suits, telling me about how hard they are going to have it when they have to take a smaller amount of millions from the owners pockets in order for their "peers" to have better futures.

The league won't have a future if they don't agree the owners terms, simple as that.
- BooBoo997

I agree with pretty much all of this

Columbus can do nothing....either youre a hockey town or you're not...so my answer to that is relocate.
- Homer

Good thing we told Phoenix that when their team utterly went into the toilet and the fans quit showing up.






No, not the Coyotes - the Cardinals.

Interestingly, you begin with Bettman and conclude with the owners collectively; it seems to me that the constant is more the fact that the owners have kept Bettman employed as commissioner. The real constant, then, is the owners (though, of course, they're not all the same from lockout to lockout, I realize that). But I am not sure what follows from that. As I said, I have no illusions about the owners--they want things done on their terms, I understand that, and I don't have a problem with that.

This is no ordinary labor dispute, since the players aren't really laborers/workers in the ordinary sense, and the owners certainly (from my perspective) have not and are not being treated unjustly (in a former life, I was a Teamster with UPS, experienced a strike, and later I worked in management with UPS--I've been on both sides). I don't begrudge the players one moment for having a union, I just don't sympathize a whole lot with their position in all of this. I suspect that it's hard to do for most of us, quite frankly.

We all make choices. I know the players have worked hard to be where they are. It's just difficult to sympathize with their "plight"--because it's no real plight.
- AL SEC0RD

great post

Columbus does have a good fan base. As a wings fan, I can vouche for the energy in that building... even when the Wings are not playing them.

As far McLean "ruining" prospect, Howson's record isn't doing any better. Their real issue, they tried to build around a goal scorer... you can't do that, they are way too streaky.
- BooBoo997

just because you get 15-18k in your building and they are loud/into it doesnt mean you have a godo fan base, AKA Phoenix....it means you have a small group of solid fans.

Too easy. Win some hockey games and get to the PO's.

At least they are on the right track, not havingDoug MacLean ruin all of their prospects.
- moondawg

Too easy? They've been in existence for the better part of a decade and made the playoffs once I believe.

Good thing we told Phoenix that when their team utterly went into the toilet and the fans quit showing up.






No, not the Coyotes - the Cardinals.
- Irish Blues

I'm not sure what your point is

Winning would help!! Their fan base is fine!
- Jacketbum

27th in the League in Home Attendance.

Columbus can do nothing....either youre a hockey town or you're not...so my answer to that is relocate.
- Homer

Lets see any NHL team come into a city and go 11 seasons in a row with losers and see how they draw. Columbus still averaged 14000 plus last year after finishing dead last. Know what you are talking about before making a fool of yourself.

17 minutes ago
@DarrenDreger: Doesn't sound like PA is willing to work with the NHL's 3 main issues. League responded by saying it won't budge. No progress. As you were.

But wait, ESPN's Scott Burnside swears to God the agreement for the next CBA has already been written - and everyone likes it:

When the proposal was described to one high-profile veteran player, he agreed it was the kind of offer that at the very least could be put to a vote by the players’ association.

Another player familiar with the often-tumultuous nature of the negotiations agreed that the governor's offer should prompt a vote. He wasn’t certain it would pass, but at least it would give an accurate gauge of the union membership’s feelings about settling. Such an offer would also show that the owners were negotiating as opposed to merely making demands, which is the perception many players were left with after a second attempt at mediation Wednesday in New Jersey.

“I think it's definitely worth looking at,” another veteran player told ESPN.com. "We'd have to look it over and see what the implications are, but it's something to work with for sure. I think that will get some traction.

“But I would like our people to look at it before we say it's worth a vote. We hire them for these reasons, so I would like to hear their input.”

Several players and agents we spoke to asked to reach out to the deal's author.

A veteran agent agreed that this is the kind of compromise on both sides that is needed for a deal, although he remained skeptical that hard-line owners would go for it.

“That type of movement is needed but with Jacobs in charge, it is doubtful,” he said, referring to the chairman of the board of governors, Boston Bruins owner Jeremy Jacobs.

It’s difficult to say how the league might respond to such a framework. Those in charge have insisted that the elements they asked for from the players -- but were rebuffed last Thursday -- are all connected and that to move off the owners’ desires for a five-year cap on contracts would require some give in another area, or to come off the league’s desire for a 10-year term for a new CBA would require movement in another area.

Oh, wait - that was from one (1) person on the owner's side (who obviously is unnamed) and so we have no idea if this proposal has any support from any other owners, much less would garner enough support to get 16 of them and Bettman to back it.

And, as I continually point out, it doesn't really fix any of the problems that existed in the prior CBA - it just puts band-aids on them, and now the discussion is over how big the band-aids should be.

the players are the ones holding all of this up.


If they want to play in the best league in the world, you play under the guidelines of the people who own the league.... which is the owners. Bettman is just the voice of all the collective owners.

Owners have much more items to worry about by way of cost, and what I see is if players cannot accept the fact the owners have every right to get back their own dollars, that is where the failure is happening.

and no, I don't feel bad for players who are standing behind Fehr with 500$ watches on, expensive suits, telling me about how hard they are going to have it when they have to take a smaller amount of millions from the owners pockets in order for their "peers" to have better futures.

The league won't have a future if they don't agree the owners terms, simple as that.
- BooBoo997

Amen brother. I posted mine before I read yours--we're saying the same thing.

Lets see any NHL team come into a city and go 11 seasons in a row with losers and see how they draw. Columbus still averaged 14000 plus last year after finishing dead last. Know what you are talking about before making a fool of yourself.
- Jacketbum

14,000 got you 27th in attendence....the Bills havent made the playoffs in 12 years and we still pack the place most Sundays.

Its not just about attendence to be a hockey town. How are TV ratings for Blue Jacket games? How is TV ratings for the playoffs when other teams are playing. Lots of factors play into if youre a hockey town or not.

I know what I'm talking about just fine thanks.

I'm not sure what your point is
- Homer

Phoenix was thought to be an absolute can't-miss NFL market when the St. Louis Cardinals relocated there in 1987. Within 7 years, sold-out crowds had given way to a barely half-filled Sun Devil Stadium as people got sick and tired of watching a cheap owner refuse to put money into a perpetually 6-10 (or worse) team. If the Cardinals are even going 9-7, fans show up in droves (as they did when the Cardinals actually started winning - despite playing all the way out in Glendale, next to where the Coyotes play).

Bottom line: winning attracts fans. Perpetual losing chases them away.

14,000 got you 27th in attendence....the Bills havent made the playoffs in 12 years and we still pack the place most Sundays.
- Homer

I can't believe you even attempted to compare a market that's had a team for 11 years - 10 of them crappy - to a market that's had a team for 50+ years and has had significant extended success at lease once in the franchise's history. P.S. - the Bills don't "pack the place most Sundays." They haven't averaged a sell-out (or even 98% of capacity) in any of the last 5 years (they're working on being well short this year, too) and the last two years they weren't even at 90% of capacity.

Players really need to ask themselves; is holding out for an extra dollar in mid-January really better than signing a deal now, and getting a couple more pay cheques?

Because the answer is no.
- Atomic Wedgie

agree but i don't think the players are asking themselves anything. i think they're looking at Donald Fehr, and that's it.

Check out Pittsburgh before Crosby and Chicago 6-7 years ago when they sucked. Lucky to draw 10000 a game. Guess they should have moved, eh?