You guys that think gun control will prevent this sort of thing are crazy, and ignorant of history in North America, and abroad. In Israel, where the population is heavily armed, the crazies use bombs. They do that here, too. Oklahoma City, comes to mind. I heard a crazy story too about some guys that hijacked planes and crashed them into buildings. The worst mass killing at a US school occured in 1927.. 45 men women and children were blown up by a madman.

Planes crash, people get hit by busses, sometimes theres a gas leak and fire/explosion occurs... Yet we still use all these things. Guns are no different. Ask the President how he'd feel about disarming the secret service. It's not the guns, it's the crazies. They always have, and always will exist and they will use whatever means they want to do harm.

God bless the souls of the lost children, the souls of the survivors, and all freedom and peace loving peoples. I am going to go puke now.

Yup! That's our constitution! Love it or leave it! Just the same as having the right to get a drivers license!
- MnGump

Funny.. usually takes a bit longer to get a drivers license. Pretty sure you need to take a few tests as well.

Call me what you want. Less guns is better in my opinion not more
- Cheeseballin

And you're certainly entitled to your opinion as am I but it seems as though the case of citizen gun ownership in this country, the US constitution is on my side.

You guys that think gun control will prevent this sort of thing are crazy, and ignorant of history in North America, and abroad. In Israel, where the population is heavily armed, the crazies use bombs. They do that here, too. Oklahoma City, comes to mind. I heard a crazy story too about some guys that hijacked planes and crashed them into buildings. The worst mass killing at a US school occured in 1927.. 45 men women and children were blown up by a madman.

Planes crash, people get hit by busses, sometimes theres a gas leak and fire/explosion occurs... Yet we still use all these things. Guns are no different. Ask the President how he'd feel about disarming the secret service. It's not the guns, it's the crazies. They always have, and always will exist and they will use whatever means they want to do harm.

God bless the souls of the lost children, the souls of the survivors, and all freedom and peace loving peoples. I am going to go puke now.
- DirkGraham

I honestly wish I could think this way.

And you're certainly entitled to your opinion as am I but it seems as though the case of citizen gun ownership in this country, the US constitution is on my side.
- MnGump

Remember.. amendments happen.

Funny.. usually takes a bit longer to get a drivers license. Pretty sure you need to take a few tests as well.
- jak521

Is this MJL?

Is this MJL?
- MnGump

Hahah, now that is awesome. Me and that guy have had some serious battles.

It's a theory, and probably mostly correct, but if it were illegal to own a gun, doesn't this cause what the founding fathers were trying to prevent? What's to stop the government from taking away liberties? They are already doing this with the Patriot Act Homeland Security Expansion that Obama signed not too long ago.
- buffalofan19

Shooting up schools and malls is a great way to protect yourself from an evil and tyrannical government who might take away your right to shoot up schools and malls.

It's a theory, and probably mostly correct, but if it were illegal to own a gun, doesn't this cause what the founding fathers were trying to prevent? What's to stop the government from taking away liberties? They are already doing this with the Patriot Act Homeland Security Expansion that Obama signed not too long ago.
- buffalofan19

Its not a theory its documented. An amendment does not just pop out of nowhere.
There has to be reasoning behind it.

You guys that think gun control will prevent this sort of thing are crazy, and ignorant of history in North America, and abroad. In Israel, where the population is heavily armed, the crazies use bombs. They do that here, too. Oklahoma City, comes to mind. I heard a crazy story too about some guys that hijacked planes and crashed them into buildings. The worst mass killing at a US school occured in 1927.. 45 men women and children were blown up by a madman.

Planes crash, people get hit by busses, sometimes theres a gas leak and fire/explosion occurs... Yet we still use all these things. Guns are no different. Ask the President how he'd feel about disarming the secret service. It's not the guns, it's the crazies. They always have, and always will exist and they will use whatever means they want to do harm.

God bless the souls of the lost children, the souls of the survivors, and all freedom and peace loving peoples. I am going to go puke now.
- DirkGraham

I think that's the problem here. Tragedies like this (understandably) get people to react, often without thinking things through. Again, perhaps tightening up gun control laws wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. However, the extreme (i.e. outlawing them completely) opens up new problems, and, as hard as it is to fathom, probably worse problems. Fundamental concepts, like those in the consititution, don't become change from good ideas to bad ideas, or vice versa over time. The enforcement might change, and the prudent thought process might change, but that's completely different.

Shooting up schools and malls is a great way to protect yourself from an evil and tyrannical government who might take away your right to shoot up schools and malls.
- Canada Cup

Which brings up the question, though, if a certain measure prevents one evil, but gives birth to another, was it the right measure?

Its not a theory its documented. An amendment does not just pop out of nowhere.
There has to be reasoning behind it.
- Cheeseballin

And is the reasoning no longer valid in today's day and age?

Remember.. amendments happen.
- jak521

The founding fathers were some extremely intelligent people. Much smarter and way more unbiased than the partisan hacks that make law in this day and age. The day US citizens lose the right to bear arms is the day our country will die a horrible and anguishing death.

It's pretty disgusting how people so easily dismiss, discard and piss all over the rights and liberties that so many good men have fought for and died to protect.

I think that's the problem here. Tragedies like this (understandably) get people to react, often without thinking things through. Again, perhaps tightening up gun control laws wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. However, the extreme (i.e. outlawing them completely) opens up new problems, and, as hard as it is to fathom, probably worse problems. Fundamental concepts, like those in the consititution, don't become change from good ideas to bad ideas, or vice versa over time. The enforcement might change, and the prudent thought process might change, but that's completely different.
- buffalofan19

Outlawing guns would be a bigger mistake than giving everyone a gun.

Here is my question, What is so wrong with increasing the amount of testing needed to own a firearm? Psyche eval, drug testing, etc. If protection means that much to you, i dont see why it would bother you to get it.

That has nothing to do with the context of the argument.
- MnGump

I think it does....

Outlawing guns would be a bigger mistake than giving everyone a gun.

Here is my question, What is so wrong with increasing the amount of testing needed to own a firearm? Psyche eval, drug testing, etc. If protection means that much to you, i dont see why it would bother you to get it.
- jak521

It doesn't. I've already stated, I'm not necessarily against stricter gun control laws. My argument is against the "guns have absolutely no place in society and nobody should own them" crowd.

Outlawing guns would be a bigger mistake than giving everyone a gun.

Here is my question, What is so wrong with increasing the amount of testing needed to own a firearm? Psyche eval, drug testing, etc. If protection means that much to you, i dont see why it would bother you to get it.
- jak521

I have no problem with this.

The founding fathers were some extremely intelligent people. Much smarter and way more unbiased than the partisan hacks that make law in this day and age. The day US citizens lose the right to bear arms is the day our country will die a horrible and anguishing death.

It's pretty disgusting how people like you so easily dismiss, discard and piss all over the rights and liberties that so many good men have fought for and died to protect.
- MnGump

Who is saying the citizens shouldnt have the right to bear arms? I sure as hell am not. But to sit around and say increasing gun control and regulations is un-American is laughable. Attempting to prevent situations like this is un-American? Hell if anything, it is the definition of American.

"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

The founding fathers were some extremely intelligent people. Much smarter and way more unbiased than the partisan hacks that make law in this day and age. The day US citizens lose the right to bear arms is the day our country will die a horrible and anguishing death.

It's pretty disgusting how people so easily dismiss, discard and piss all over the rights and liberties that so many good men have fought for and died to protect.
- MnGump

Under the mantra of "it's the 21st century...we don't need them anymore".

Which brings up the question, though, if a certain measure prevents one evil, but gives birth to another, was it the right measure?
- buffalofan19

If you are weighing the number of innocents killed against anything an elected government might do to you the answer is no.

It doesn't. I've already stated, I'm not necessarily against stricter gun control laws. My argument is against the "guns have absolutely no place in society and nobody should own them" crowd.
- buffalofan19

Well then we see eye to eye on that.

Actually, I dont recall anyone suggesting removal of all firearms.

The founding fathers were some extremely intelligent people. Much smarter and way more unbiased than the partisan hacks that make law in this day and age. The day US citizens lose the right to bear arms is the day our country will die a horrible and anguishing death.

It's pretty disgusting how people so easily dismiss, discard and piss all over the rights and liberties that so many good men have fought for and died to protect.
- MnGump

Do you have any evidence of this?

Do you have any evidence of this?
- golfingsince

Thats gotta be a joke, right?

I think it does....
- golfingsince

No, not the original argument which the premise of was if it's easier to obtain a gun legally or illegally.

Thanks for playing.

And is the reasoning no longer valid in today's day and age?
- buffalofan19

Ok ill give u all the guns you want and you try to take the U.S military on. If we need to overthrow the government we would need to military to turn on them. citizens with guns would stand no chance.