been meaning to ask...why Vonnegut?
- Dkos

I'm reading Cat's Cradle for the first time right now. I don't really know any other way to put it than Kurt just got it. His humor satiates the cynic in me

You asked just in the nick of time, I'm in the process of changing the avatard.

The Flyers have plenty of experience with UFA big hulking defenseman signed to longterm contracts (see Rathje, Hatcher). Those two had issues even before the Flyers signed them but they did it anyway. The Flyers usually roll the dice with their defensemen and they usually come up snake eyes. Doesn't stop them. The Flyers need to go to gambler's anonymous.
- Flyers_01

I agree 100% but I think they believe they will eventually win

How many recent cup winners have gambled to the extent of the Flyers? In addition to paying more money per year by a large margin than he's ever seen in his career for a defenseman who was on the downside of his career, the Flyers threw away a huge amount of assets.

2 1sts, Luca Sbisa, and Jeffery Lupul. All that with only 1 year remaining on his contract. Pronger himself admitted that Holmgren hadn't talked to him at all before the trade. There was no expectation of a contract extension from his camp when the trade went down. Holmgren very well could've been fired for giving up all those assets for only one year of Pronger. That's why he had to give him the lifetime achievement award contract.

In terms of assets given up and money it was mind boggling. If the Flyers had skipped the trade and offered Pronger that money as a straight up UFA it is unlikely anyone else would have matched.
- Flyers_01

I prefer to deal in reality versus a hypothetical situation that didn't happen. Pronger was re-signed and it wasn't for only 1 year. So that's irrelevant.

I agree totally that there is something to be said for patience and developing a team through the draft.

I don't think you can say that it's unlikely that anyone else would have matched. Based on how Free Agency worked. You can make a case that teams bidding on Pronger would've driven the price higher.

They did give up a lot for him, no doubt. But if the GM of my team thinks that the player is the missing peice. Then I want him to make that move every time.

The Flyers have been one of the most aggressive teams in exploiting loopholes in the last CBA and treating the draft as a piggy bank rather than a development system. It's no surprise that teams such as Nashville (most likely) don't care how closing loopholes affect the Flyers. They are in a prison of their own making. The Pronger trade and subsequent over 35 contract were pretty idiotic but served a short term need at long term expense. Well the longterm arrived. Also, despite Holmgren's assurances otherwise, the Flyers weren't aware that the contract he signed was a 35+ contract.
- Flyers_01

In hindsight the trade was stupid....but it came within two wins of a cup so i make it everyday!

Those Americans and Canadiens have been there for how long? And played how many games over there? Zherdev had 6 NHL Seasons and 421 games played in the NHL to get his act together.
- MJL

You're missing the point... some individuals are willing and ready to adapt to new surroundings and situations... an extraordinary example is Gabriel Landeskog, who's become so thoroughly Canadian in such a short time span that it's really kind of hard to believe.

Time/duration has nothing to do with it.

It's all about flexibility and willingness to accept change and compromise. Some people automatically seek to blend in -- others are more set in their ways and/or are actively resistant to assimilation. You give somebody who is unwilling to embrace their new surroundings all the time you want -- they're not going to be "getting their act together" to anybody's satisfaction in the end. That's just in their nature.

For every Zherdev, you have an Evander Kane.

For every Ovechkin who complains about life in NA, you have a Turris complaining about Oulu.

The point I'm trying to make is that nationality has nothing to do with it -- it's on an individual level, so that should challenge some of our assumptions about our European friends in the NHL.

How many recent cup winners have gambled to the extent of the Flyers? In addition to paying more money per year by a large margin than he's ever seen in his career for a defenseman who was on the downside of his career, the Flyers threw away a huge amount of assets.

2 1sts, Luca Sbisa, and Jeffery Lupul. All that with only 1 year remaining on his contract. Pronger himself admitted that Holmgren hadn't talked to him at all before the trade. There was no expectation of a contract extension from his camp when the trade went down. Holmgren very well could've been fired for giving up all those assets for only one year of Pronger. That's why he had to give him the lifetime achievement award contract.

In terms of assets given up and money it was mind boggling. If the Flyers had skipped the trade and offered Pronger that money as a straight up UFA it is unlikely anyone else would have matched.
- Flyers_01

Homer is the GODFATHER of GM's..........dont blame him...hes done a great job of recognizing talent and shipping out a holes who didnt belong.

Getting Pronger was a rare chance to fill that difficult and vital role of #1 defenseman. Look how close we got with him, and look at how badly we miss having that role filled since his injury. Hindsight is 20/20, and I wouldn't even argue the Flyers transacted perfectly, but faced with another chance to add that kind of talent (were I GM) I'd have to pull the trigger.
- BulliesPhan87

Im not going to rehash what I thought regarding the Pronger trade when it went down. I didnt like it. A lot of assests to give up, coupled with the failure of the Steve E trade that cost them a chance to draft John Carlson or Jacob markstrom. In a salary cap environment, prospect development is key. With that said, and I posted this after the horrible phantoms game on Sat, the need to replace Pronger is paramount. When Homer decided to offersheet Weber, he should have bee prepared to part with Schenn or Couts. With the young talent on the team already, maybe JVR stays but this supposition. Point is, one of 10 & 14 should be wearing a Predator jersey.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Read's Contract; The Realities of NHLers in Europe
- bmeltzer

easily one of the better articles i've read on here in the last several months

nicely done Bill!

Pretty ironic to see the shoe on the other foot.

How many Europeans have crossed the pond only to get roundly ripped by NA media and fans for being unwilling/unable to adapt to new surroundings. The entire Russian enigma syndrome? Nik Zherdev? There were people lining up to buy that guy a ticket out of town.

Well, as it turns out, Americans and Canadians are just as likely to struggle under similar circumstances.

Go figure.
- Tomahawk

Was thinking the exact same thing. Well said.

I prefer to deal in reality versus a hypothetical situation that didn't happen. Pronger was re-signed and it wasn't for only 1 year. So that's irrelevant.

I agree totally that there is something to be said for patience and developing a team through the draft.

I don't think you can say that it's unlikely that anyone else would have matched. Based on how Free Agency worked. You can make a case that teams bidding on Pronger would've driven the price higher.

They did give up a lot for him, no doubt. But if the GM of my team thinks that the player is the missing peice. Then I want him to make that move every time.
- MJL

You're missing the point... some individuals are willing and ready to adapt to new surroundings and situations... an extraordinary example is Gabriel Landeskog, who's become so thoroughly Canadian in such a short time span that it's really kind of hard to believe.

Time/duration has nothing to do with it.

It's all about flexibility and willingness to accept change and compromise. Some people automatically seek to blend in -- others are more set in their ways and/or are actively resistant to assimilation. You give somebody who is unwilling to embrace their new surroundings all the time you want -- they're not going to be "getting their act together" to anybody's satisfaction in the end. That's just in their nature.

For every Zherdev, you have an Evander Kane.

For every Ovechkin who complains about life in NA, you have a Turris complaining about Oulu.

The point I'm trying to make is that nationality has nothing to do with it -- it's on an individual level, so that should challenge some of our assumptions about our European friends in the NHL.
- Tomahawk

I agree totally that nationality has nothing to do with it and it's on an individual level.

But when you're using Zherdev as an example versus players who have been in Europe from the NHL for a month or two. Time and duration is absolutely relevant. It takes time to adjust to new sorroundings and playing in a completly different environment.

HEART AND SPEED - MATTHEW READ

Sounds like the Euro leagues are more like the old-days of the NHL then the current NHL. Players playing for the love of the game and team. Where as today's NHL has become ( or becoming if it ever comes back ) the new NBA.

Hey everyone, I'm Joe. Long-time lurker, first-time poster. Bill, enjoy every single blog you've ever written; helps to keep me going in this tough time.
To everyone condemning the Pronger trade, would you have minded it if we ended up winning the 2010 Cup (I know some of you don't want to deal in hypotheticals)? CLAUDE GIROUX FOR PA STATE GOVERNOR!

Hey everyone, I'm Joe. Long-time lurker, first-time poster. Bill, enjoy every single blog you've ever written; helps to keep me going in this tough time.
To everyone condemning the Pronger trade, would you have minded it if we ended up winning the 2010 Cup (I know some of you don't want to deal in hypotheticals)? CLAUDE GIROUX FOR PA STATE GOVERNOR!
- jmatchett

That trade came so close to paying off. I still can't get over losing after all that happened in that run.

That trade came so close to paying off. I still can't get over losing after all that happened in that run.
- BulliesPhan87

We lacked one key player.... We didnt have a Solid Goalie

the Steve E trade that cost them a chance to draft John Carlson or Jacob markstrom.
- KINGKENZO

This is the one trade that haunts me. After it, we basically traded 2 first round picks for Matt Carle (Downie played a grand total of 38 games with the Flyers before getting shipped out...Eminger played 12). We could have had Carlson and Downie. Matt Carle was a serviceable #3b/4a and scored the GTG in the 3rd in the NYR shootout game, but I've been a fan of American Hero John Carlson for a while, and dude showed how he handles pressure in the WJC Gold medal game, not the mention the Calder Cup Finals.

Hey everyone, I'm Joe. Long-time lurker, first-time poster. Bill, enjoy every single blog you've ever written; helps to keep me going in this tough time.
To everyone condemning the Pronger trade, would you have minded it if we ended up winning the 2010 Cup (I know some of you don't want to deal in hypotheticals)? CLAUDE GIROUX FOR PA STATE GOVERNOR!
- jmatchett

I wasn't condeming the Pronger trade as much as responding to BulliesPhan87 post that the Flyers didn't expect something to go wrong with Pronger after just 1.5 years. I felt, at the time of the trade, that it was a BIG risk to throw all those years, draft picks, etc. at a 35 year old player and that the Flyers would have to be foolish to think that a player that age wouldn't start breaking down fast. I also said that aside from the freak accident that ended his career the trade worked out better than I thought it would. Pronger was great when he played, he was a great leader, Sbisa doesn't look like he's going to turn into a supestar and they managed to replace the draft picks they gave up with young, high draft-type players.

protypical

protypical
- wilsonecho91

protypical
- wilsonecho91

protypical
- wilsonecho91

Pretty ironic to see the shoe on the other foot.

How many Europeans have crossed the pond only to get roundly ripped by NA media and fans for being unwilling/unable to adapt to new surroundings. The entire Russian enigma syndrome? Nik Zherdev? There were people lining up to buy that guy a ticket out of town.

Well, as it turns out, Americans and Canadians are just as likely to struggle under similar circumstances.

Go figure.
- Tomahawk

Sounds about right.

We lacked one key player.... We didnt have a Solid Goalie
- Flyers_1488

Either did Chicago

Either did Chicago
- Scoob

But they also didnt have Michael Leighton.

(attempting to Troll; had Leighton not stood on his head we would have never made it to the cup in the first place)