Im no lawyer but signing a contrac in good faith and then locking out that party to alter that contract just seems illegal. This is sports though so I guess they play by different rules? I dont know..

Besides, arent the Wild already paying them a portion as a bonus or something?
- Gunslinger

BOTH parties negotiated that deal mere weeks before the expiration of the CBA. the players signed knowing that the entire contract would be paid out under uknown terms. by this logic, every active NHL contract was negotiated in bad faith. it's nuts.

This is all just so complex.
- Gunslinger

I am at the point where it is all laughable and simple really.

The PA is trying to squeeze the owners for every last cent right up until January 10. The league has a deadline on trashing a season, which they don't want to do, and neither do the players.

So... all that *really* matters is the calendar.

Sadly, we will not get to see the fun and games of legal gymnastics for the next couple years.

nothing wrong with eating kittens. cats are (frank)ing useless.

EDIT: sorry Yan
- DoubleDown

Speaking of eating.....just had myself some baby cow

No what is funny about this is this.....

In the NHL's lawsuit they used a bunch of twitter quotes to support their claim. Now the PA are using last nights meeting and Bettman's quote that there was never a mention of the Disclaimer to have the court throw out the NHL's suit.

They are using the same tactics that the NHL used on them.........

Anybody remember the old Spy vs. Spy cartoon from MAD magazine? Reminds me of it
- faceto27

Except that Bettman's quote was re last night specifically. The PA quotes were public knowledge prior to the unnecessary publicized vote by the PA, which they are now doing again.

Does the PA really think that a court will believe they have not used the DOI as a bargaining instrument? They publicly led up to this point.

The courts can be stupid... not that stupid.

That is why I keep saying this is all meaningless, on both sides.

Focus on January 10

BOTH parties negotiated that deal mere weeks before the expiration of the CBA. the players signed knowing that the entire contract would be paid out under uknown terms. by this logic, every active NHL contract was negotiated in bad faith. it's nuts.
- DoubleDown

I think there would be a difference in the timing though, no? I guess it also depends on what the terms in the contract are, which we dont know and will never know. There could be a clause in there that has this covered for all we know.

Except that Bettman's quote was re last night specifically. The PA quotes were public knowledge prior to the unnecessary publicized vote by the PA, which they are now doing again.

Does the PA really think that a court will believe they have not used the DOI as a bargaining instrument? They publicly led up to this point.

The courts can be stupid... not that stupid.

That is why I keep saying this is all meaningless, on both sides.

Focus on January 10
- Aetherial

Has to be before January 10th. If camps are to open by January 11th, your going to need about 4 days for players from overseas to get back. That means january 7th is the read deadline.

I find this whole thing interesting also...

Isn't it the same law firm representing the NFL NBA and NHL owners?

You have to know the NBA and NFL would LOVE to see the NHL go to the wall and establish some precedents.

This new tactic that labor uses, the sham DOI/Decertification either has to be corrected by changes to law, or by being defeated to establish precedent that it does not work. IT has definitely not been used for its original intent.

I suspect that there is a LOT of stuff that none of us knows that the lawyers and the league owners have discussed. I think they are more than aware of all the possibilities.

I still believe this really has nothing to do with the legal crap going on now. It has everything to do with whether or not the owners want a season more than they want whatever is on the table when we hit January 10 (or thereabouts). Everything else is more posturing and "noise".

... but damn it would be a fun thing to watch this play out long term!
- Aetherial

Yes it is the same law firm.

Now this is where the conspiracy theory part of me comes into play. Bettman used to be a partner at that law firm. The Pro leagues would love to challenge this thing in court, but none of the big leagues wants to take the chance. So how about lets get the little guy, the NHL, to be the guinea pig. The law firm entices Bettman with untold riches, and Bettman manages to convince the owners to fight till the death.

The conspiracy theory in me.

Ya never know.............

Except that Bettman's quote was re last night specifically. The PA quotes were public knowledge prior to the unnecessary publicized vote by the PA, which they are now doing again.

Does the PA really think that a court will believe they have not used the DOI as a bargaining instrument? They publicly led up to this point.

The courts can be stupid... not that stupid.

That is why I keep saying this is all meaningless, on both sides.

Focus on January 10
- Aetherial

Eric Macramalla ‏@EricOnSportsLaw

Status Conference set for Jan. 7 with Judge Engelmayer; Court's goal is case management plan for NHL court case "that is constructive

Playing out in the courts wouldn't be nearly as fun as to see what happens after the judge rules.

Imagine this: Judge Wopner lays down a ruling that the NHL was legal in locking them out, the decertification was just a bargaining ploy, and agrees with the NHL that all contracts are null and void.

BANG goes the gavel.

Every single player is now a UFA.

Including guys who haven't hit their 18th birthday.

Or their 14th birthday.

No salary cap.

No rules at all.

You'd be glued to TSN, while operating a laptop and an iPad, trying to keep up with it all.

Crosby entertains offers from 15 teams.

Komisarek begs the Islanders to sign him for $100,000.

McDavid signs a lifetime contract with MLSEL.

Oh, Sweet Jesus, it would be magnificent.
- Atomic Wedgie

By the time the Supreme Court gets involved we would miss hockey for a long time.....as long as Brian Burke is the GM, can't see poor McDavid getting anything more the the Leafs standard 4 year.....max.....deal....nice to dream though.

Has to be before January 10th. If camps are to open by January 11th, your going to need about 4 days for players from overseas to get back. That means january 7th is the read deadline.
- faceto27

Monday...

You might be onto something here... a big long weekend in a locked room. The noble warriors from both sides working feverishly on behalf of their cherished fans to get a deal done under the most arduous of circumstances... while the owners spend time sunning in one of their winter estates and the players are flashing bricks in Vegas.

It almost brings a tear to my eye.

It could very well be this weekend.

I wonder how long both sides have had it circled on their calendars... since about last February maybe?

I think there would be a difference in the timing though, no? I guess it also depends on what the terms in the contract are, which we dont know and will never know. There could be a clause in there that has this covered for all we know.
- Gunslinger

in terms of legal aspects, yeah, i have no clue. i'm just giving my opinion on the "fairness" of it all i guess.

Monday...

You might be onto something here... a big long weekend in a locked room. The noble warriors from both sides working feverishly on behalf of their cherished fans to get a deal done under the most arduous of circumstances... while the owners spend time sunning in one of their winter estates and the players are flashing bricks in Vegas.

It almost brings a tear to my eye.

It could very well be this weekend.

I wonder how long both sides have had it circled on their calendars... since about last February maybe?
- Aetherial

Without a doubt. Both sides knew that this would play out to the end. Just a charade the past few months.

As P.T. Barnum said........ "there's a sucker born every minute"

The entire NHL fanbase is the big sucker

Yes it is the same law firm.

Now this is where the conspiracy theory part of me comes into play. Bettman used to be a partner at that law firm. The Pro leagues would love to challenge this thing in court, but none of the big leagues wants to take the chance. So how about lets get the little guy, the NHL, to be the guinea pig. The law firm entices Bettman with untold riches, and Bettman manages to convince the owners to fight till the death.

The conspiracy theory in me.

Ya never know.............
- faceto27

I wouldn't go that far...

I would say that the owners of the other pro leagues and the NHL owners have most definitely talked. In some cases they are the same group. I doubt there is money changing hands, but hell you never know!

I just doubt it is going to Bettman personally. He is the owners' puppet.

in terms of legal aspects, yeah, i have no clue. i'm just giving my opinion on the "fairness" of it all i guess.
- DoubleDown

It was a good one, made sense.

...so...since this is going to court....we're (frank)ed, right?

...so...since this is going to court....we're (frank)ed, right?
- Giroux_Is_God

Pretty much..

Pretty much..
- Fruitcakenipple

Now...we talkin like see you in October of '13 slap on the wrist (frank)ed or bye bye til 2014 beaten with an iron pole (frank)ed?

...so...since this is going to court....we're (frank)ed, right?
- Giroux_Is_God

Won't get there....

What it does is force both parties to come to an agreement before that. Tentative deal by Monday, goes to a vote by Friday.....

Won't get there....

What it does is force both parties to come to an agreement before that. Tentative deal by Monday, goes to a vote by Friday.....
- Symba007

I don't really understand. I try to stay out of the legalese for the betterment of my sanity, but I'm under the (probably wrong) impression that once they vote this into court, there won't be negotiations and it will just be a legal battle.

Didn't they just vote to bring it to court?

Please correct me. Because I'm wrong

Now...we talkin like see you in October of '13 slap on the wrist (frank)ed or bye bye til 2014 beaten with an iron pole (frank)ed?
- Giroux_Is_God

Depends on how long it gets tied up in the courts..Years quite possible...

Playing out in the courts wouldn't be nearly as fun as to see what happens after the judge rules.

Imagine this: Judge Wopner lays down a ruling that the NHL was legal in locking them out, the decertification was just a bargaining ploy, and agrees with the NHL that all contracts are null and void.

BANG goes the gavel.

Every single player is now a UFA.

Including guys who haven't hit their 18th birthday.

Or their 14th birthday.

No salary cap.

No rules at all.

You'd be glued to TSN, while operating a laptop and an iPad, trying to keep up with it all.

Crosby entertains offers from 15 teams.

Komisarek begs the Islanders to sign him for $100,000.

McDavid signs a lifetime contract with MLSEL.

Oh, Sweet Jesus, it would be magnificent.
- Atomic Wedgie

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it if the courts find in favour of the PA disclaiming that the contracts would all be null and void and the PA can file for illegal lockout.

If they find in favour of the NHL then we are just back to bargaining again?

Hot girl behind Dreger

I don't really understand. I try to stay out of the legalese for the betterment of my sanity, but I'm under the (probably wrong) impression that once they vote this into court, there won't be negotiations and it will just be a legal battle.

Didn't they just vote to bring it to court?

Please correct me. Because I'm wrong
- Giroux_Is_God

Start from the bottom


Eric Macramalla ‏@EricOnSportsLaw

So case conference set which is designed to set down timetable and manage case - interesting wording


58m Eric Macramalla Eric Macramalla ‏@EricOnSportsLaw

"The parties are directed to meet and confer on these subjects before Monday January 7... (Signed by Judge Paul A. Engelmayer" (3/3)
Expand
59m Eric Macramalla Eric Macramalla ‏@EricOnSportsLaw

"one that may enhance, and does not needlessly inhibit, the parties' ability to resolve their disputes with dispatch" (2)
Expand
59m Eric Macramalla Eric Macramalla ‏@EricOnSportsLaw

Status Conference set for Jan. 7 with Judge Engelmayer; Court's goal is case management plan for NHL court case "that is constructive" (1)

Start from the bottom


Eric Macramalla ‏@EricOnSportsLaw

So case conference set which is designed to set down timetable and manage case - interesting wording


58m Eric Macramalla Eric Macramalla ‏@EricOnSportsLaw

"The parties are directed to meet and confer on these subjects before Monday January 7... (Signed by Judge Paul A. Engelmayer" (3/3)
Expand
59m Eric Macramalla Eric Macramalla ‏@EricOnSportsLaw

"one that may enhance, and does not needlessly inhibit, the parties' ability to resolve their disputes with dispatch" (2)
Expand
59m Eric Macramalla Eric Macramalla ‏@EricOnSportsLaw

Status Conference set for Jan. 7 with Judge Engelmayer; Court's goal is case management plan for NHL court case "that is constructive" (1)
- Symba007

So...January 7th is court day, provided they don't strike a deal within these next few days??

So...January 7th is court day, provided they don't strike a deal within these next few days??
- Giroux_Is_God

it is and even if it goes to court, the process does not prevent the league to come to an agreement.