how on earth is it okay for these penalties to incur against contracts that were signed BEFORE this new cba


bizarre to say the least
- Don'tForgetTocchet

anything to penalize the big guys....commie bastards

anything to penalize the big guys....commie bastards
- FlyerMike18

seriously. be sure to punish the people who bring in all the money.

i really don't follow this stuff, is there any precedent of something like this... changing the terms of a contract previously approved by the nhl?


and is there a clause about early retirement due to injury?
- Don'tForgetTocchet

I haven't seen anything about an injury retirement clause. But if writer Christmann is right, the only one that hurts the Flyers(and isn't on their roster) is Richards.

How's next years draft class? I remember a lot of the good young soon to be FA defenseman got resigned. Anyone good good to be an FA after this year?

How's next years draft class? I remember a lot of the good young soon to be FA defenseman got resigned. Anyone good good to be an FA after this year?
- jstross

Alexander Edler is far and away the best young defenseman to be a UFA in summer. Ryan Whitney would be intriguing if he could stay healthy. Ron Hainsey is solid and will only be 32. Ian White is out there, but not sold on him.

No, I think if the deal is bought out on the amnesty plan, it goes away. However, if the guy stays on the roster....Hellzapoppin.

I'm trying to clarify if the other rule is in place, where the team that originally signed a long term deal is on the hook if a player retires early, because then Carter and Richards suddenly become a concern for the Flyers again.
- Jsaquella

Flyers no longer own their contracts. That would be insane to penalize the Flyers if players not on their team in years retire.

Flyers no longer own their contracts. That would be insane to penalize the Flyers if players not on their team in years retire.
- jstross

Well, it's in the new CBA. If Mike Richards retires tomorrow, the Flyers get hit with a cap penalty.

Well, it's in the new CBA. If Mike Richards retires tomorrow, the Flyers get hit with a cap penalty.
- Jsaquella

So it was in the old CBS as well then?

So it was in the old CBS as well then?
- jstross

Nope. It's brand new.

It's part retribution for teams that found the loopholes in the old CBA and exploited them like porn producers exploit young girls and part warning to those same GMs not to go "Loophole Spelunking" in the new CBA

Nope. It's brand new.

It's part retribution for teams that found the loopholes in the old CBA and exploited them like porn producers exploit young girls and part warning to those same GMs not to go "Loophole Spelunking" in the new CBA
- Jsaquella

First, LMAO on your characterization, that's funny. Do you have a PDF or the section that refers to this? Seems illegal to assign accountability/responsibility to terms of a contract you don't own. They could just have easily said the Flyers get a salary cap of $30 million and if teams signed off the Flyers were screwed.

Alexander Edler is far and away the best young defenseman to be a UFA in summer. Ryan Whitney would be intriguing if he could stay healthy. Ron Hainsey is solid and will only be 32. Ian White is out there, but not sold on him.
- Jsaquella

if the price is right, i wouldn't mind seeing them roll the dice with whitney. assuming he even gets to fa, of course

First, LMAO on your characterization, that's funny. Do you have a PDF or the section that refers to this? Seems illegal to assign accountability/responsibility to terms of a contract you don't own. They could just have easily said the Flyers get a salary cap of $30 million and if teams signed off the Flyers were screwed.
- jstross

The owners original plan was for the full cap hit to land on the team that originally signed a long term back diving deal if the player retired. This new system is the NHLPA counter proposal. If you look back over the last couple pages it's explained in links I posted to columns by Pierre Lebrun, Elliotte Friedman and Kevin Christmann.

if the price is right, i wouldn't mind seeing them roll the dice with whitney. assuming he even gets to fa, of course
- FlyerMike18

With the lack of quality, I expect Whitney to get a fairly large offer. Of course, there will be amnesty buyouts who are added to that UFA list

Well, it's in the new CBA. If Mike Richards retires tomorrow, the Flyers get hit with a cap penalty.
- Jsaquella

I think bc the flyers didn't front load Richards contract it would only be 150k they would have to eat.....and bc Carter's and JVR's contract didn't start until they were with their new teams .....the flyers are safe and prongers contract will be ok bc of LTIR .....that was on philly phaitful or something like that.....I like that you can trade cap space or at least trade players and eat some of the cap space....up to 50%

The owners original plan was for the full cap hit to land on the team that originally signed a long term back diving deal if the player retired. This new system is the NHLPA counter proposal. If you look back over the last couple pages it's explained in links I posted to columns by Pierre Lebrun, Elliotte Friedman and Kevin Christmann.
- Jsaquella

Can you link the section? I Disney and way behind on what's going on.

I think bc the flyers didn't front load Richards contract it would only be 150k they would have to eat.....and bc Carter's and JVR's contract didn't start until they were with their new teams .....the flyers are safe and prongers contract will be ok bc of LTIR .....that was on philly phaitful or something like that.....I like that you can trade cap space or at least trade players and eat some of the cap space....up to 50%
- huks99

The reason the Flyers will dodge a lot on Richards' deal is because he only spent 3 years here under it.

I linked the PhillyPhaithful column here, a few pages back.

I do think that this rule will increase the possibility of Bryzgalov and Briere being the buyouts, especially since Pronger's injury status eliminates him from being one

Can you link the section? I Disney and way behind on what's going on.
- jstross

http://espn.go.com/blog/n...eals-and-more-cba-details

Lebrun explains the ramifications of the "Luongo Rule"

THE LUONGO RULE
This is another rule from the league aimed at hammering current back-diving deals (front-loaded, "cheat deals." However, this has changed from its original form when the NHL first proposed it in October.

In the original formula, if a player like Roberto Luongo was traded and retired before the end of his deal, the Canucks (the team who signed him to the contract) would assume his remaining $5.33-million cap early hit in retirement. The new rule in this tentative agreement is different. Now, for any contract in excess of six years, both teams involved in a trade on a contract like Luongo’s would be penalized if he retired before the end of his deal.

To wit: let’s say the Canucks trade Luongo soon. Luongo has played two years of his 12-year contract, the Canucks paying him $16.716 million in salary but only absorbing a $5.33 million cap hit each year. That’s a cap savings of $6.056 million over two years so far for Vancouver. Under this new rule, should the Canucks trade him now and he retires with three years left on his contract, Vancouver would be charged that $6.056 million in cap savings over the final three years left on his deal from 2019 to 2022. However, let’s say for argument’s sake Luongo gets traded to Toronto, the Maple Leafs also would be subject to cap penalties if Luongo retires before the end of his deal.

To wit, part 2: If Luongo were to play the next seven years of his deal in Toronto before retiring, the Leafs would be paying him $43.666 million in salary but only counting $37.31 million against the cap over those seven years, a cap savings of $6.356 million. So if Luongo retires with three years left on his deal (because his salary falls to $1.618 million in the 10th year and then $1 million in the last two years of the deal), the Leafs would get charged that $6.356 million on their cap spread evenly over the remaining three years of his deal.

And obviously, if players under these back-diving deals are never traded, but retire before the end of their deals (Marian Hossa in Chicago), their current teams get charged the cap savings spread evenly over the remaining years of the deal.


So if Mike Richards retires before his deal is up, the Flyers and Kings would BOTH incur cap penalties. The other wrinkle for the Flyers is that the cap penalty incurred is based on the cap relief each team got from the contract. Jeff Carter never played for the Flyers under his 11 year deal. Nor did JvR under his 6 year deal. So, in theory, if Carter hung it up before the deal expires, the Flyers may be off the hook completely.

HT to Kevin Christmann at Flyers Faithful for his homework and his blog on the subject

http://flyersfaithful.com...-deals-wont-haunt-flyers/

Here's the link to the Freidman story

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/...-hurt-roberto-luongo.html

The reason the Flyers will dodge a lot on Richards' deal is because he only spent 3 years here under it.

I linked the PhillyPhaithful column here, a few pages back.

I do think that this rule will increase the possibility of Bryzgalov and Briere being the buyouts, especially since Pronger's injury status eliminates him from being one
- Jsaquella

Ok, I'll search, probably tomorrow. What hit do the Flyers take if Pronger retires or will he just agrees to be LTIR until the end? With the penalty you refer to they have to get Bryz off the books. Playing with fire. I assume if the contracts only longer than the 8 in the CBA are effected or is any retirement a hit?

Ok, I'll search, probably tomorrow. What hit do the Flyers take if Pronger retires or will he just agrees to be LTIR until the end? With the penalty you refer to they have to get Bryz off the books. Playing with fire. I assume if the contracts only longer than the 8 in the CBA are effected or is any retirement a hit?
- jstross

It only affects deals that are longer than 6 years. So Bryzgalov and Briere are the only two that fall under the rule currently on the roster.

Pronger's a bit different, because he's an over 35 deal. I have seen nothing that eliminates the over 35 rules, so they'd carry his hit regardless if he retired.

It only affects deals that are longer than 6 years. So Bryzgalov and Briere are the only two that fall under the rule currently on the roster.

Pronger's a bit different, because he's an over 35 deal. I have seen nothing that eliminates the over 35 rules, so they'd carry his hit regardless if he retired.
- Jsaquella

If the analysis in the links you provided I think the Flyers dodged a bullet, but language is everything. I agree with buying out Bryz and Briere since Pronger will obviously play ball and remain as an LTIR hit that really on hurts the Summer cap. Obviously, I have to look at Briere's entire contract.

Interesting times. There's going to be new language built into contracts about non injury related retirement.

If the analysis in the links you provided I think the Flyers dodged a bullet, but language is everything. I agree with buying out Bryz and Briere since Pronger will obviously play ball and remain as an LTIR hit that really on hurts the Summer cap. Obviously, I have to look at Briere's entire contract.

Interesting times. There's going to be new language built into contracts about non injury related retirement.
- jstross

One item that helps the Flyers is the ability to trade cap space/salary

One item that helps the Flyers is the ability to trade cap space/salary
- Jsaquella

Hmm. I have to look at that. Snyder is not afraid to spend the $$$$, so if he can buy needed cap space, Flyers will always be in good shape. Looking forward to seeing the parameters.

Hmm. I have to look at that. Snyder is not afraid to spend the $$$$, so if he can buy needed cap space, Flyers will always be in good shape. Looking forward to seeing the parameters.
- jstross

It's been reported, but only in the barest of terms. I can't wait to read this sucker.

It's been reported, but only in the barest of terms. I can't wait to read this sucker.
- Jsaquella

As much as I want to win now, I love the young forwards. If Holmgren can get some young Dmen in here the future is bright. I.e., not the time to mortgage the future for an over priced forward or old defenseman.

As much as I want to win now, I love the young forwards. If Holmgren can get some young Dmen in here the future is bright. I.e., not the time to mortgage the future for an over priced forward or old defenseman.
- jstross

If they get a veteran defenseman, I would be pissed if they moved one of the kids. Only way I move a Schenn/Couts is if the guy coming back is Bogosian, Pietrangelo type guy.