I agree with you, just playing Devil's advocate. Adding a goalie would be the last thing I'd consider right now. Bryzgalov is signed and is a good goalie. In the summer, there are a few good goalies that are scheduled to be UFA and possibly some that will be among the amnesty buyouts.

I agree that Luongo is an upgrade on Bryz, but he has similar questions surrounding him: looked at as something of a head case, perceived as being a playoff flop & the big contracts that run for nearly a decade more.
- Jsaquella

I think what people need to look at is that any goalie that has played in tippet's system has been successful. That doesnt mean a guy cant be successful once he leaves.
But I do think bryz can be much more effective if the guys in front of him are willing and have the hockey sense to play better in their own zone.
Same can be said about a lot of goalies, but I think bryz is a level above where he can make a couple of those breakdown saves a game. Its just that ever ither shot attempt can not be of that variety.

Perhaps. But he was coming off an injury plagued season where his value was probably at an all time low. I was disappointed at the return at first, but that's being somewhat shortsighted. Got to give Schenn a chance. And by a chance I mean a couple of years, not 20 games.
- PLindbergh31

I'm giving him a chance. Just because I feel that the Flyers could have gotten more in the trade doesn't mean I'm not giving Schenn a chance. I am excited to have him on the team and I think he'll be a very solid piece of the puzzle.

Looking forward to watching the start of Luke Schenn's Flyers career. And also the continued development of all the Flyers young players.
- MJL

I am going to miss his Fights against Hartnell....But this guy has a lot of upside, and showed it in spurts in TO....I think he's going to play good.

What if the trade was Luongo for Bryz. As you said, Luongo is a clear upgrade (Flyers could balance with a pick/s). And, you might ask what's in it for Van... Purely money. For 2013 - Luongo is going into his 3 year of 12 year contract (~45M left to pay at 5.6M cap hit), and Bryz is starting his 2nd year of 9 (~31M left to pay at 5.3M cap hit). These are real rough numbers, but Van makes about $13M. Comcast/Flyers can absorb that hit, not sure if Van owners are rich or poor...
- leon neon

The only reason Luongo is available is because Vancouver has Cory Schneider. They have zero need to trade a veteran with a big long contract for another veteran with a big long contract.

I, for one, am ok with Luke Schenn. He was in a bad situation in Toronto and had ups and downs that were chronicled more closely than most 18 or 19 year old kids would have been. He's a natural fit to play with Kimmo Timonen, which would be an ideal pairing for him.

Timonen's all around ability would allow Schenn to play his game without being exposed with his partner's short comings like he was in Toronto. Kimmo could also help with his veteran leadership if & when Schenn gets into a rut.

I do share the opinion that the Flyers overpaid for his services, or at least could/should have gotten more for JvR. But if Schenn can be what Karl Alzner is in the next couple of years, he will be a nice piece of the Flyers puzzle.
- Jsaquella

i agree that kimmo would be an ideal partner for schenn

What if the trade was Luongo for Bryz. As you said, Luongo is a clear upgrade (Flyers could balance with a pick/s). And, you might ask what's in it for Van... Purely money. For 2013 - Luongo is going into his 3 year of 12 year contract (~45M left to pay at 5.6M cap hit), and Bryz is starting his 2nd year of 9 (~31M left to pay at 5.3M cap hit). These are real rough numbers, but Van makes about $13M. Comcast/Flyers can absorb that hit, not sure if Van owners are rich or poor...
- leon neon

That trade makes zero sense for Vancouver.

I'm giving him a chance. Just because I feel that the Flyers could have gotten more in the trade doesn't mean I'm not giving Schenn a chance. I am excited to have him on the team and I think he'll be a very solid piece of the puzzle.
- Jsaquella

I know. I wasn't saying for you to give him a chance. I just mean in general. Flyers traded from an area of strength to address an area of weakness is basically the crux of why the deal was made.

My $0.02:

Can the Flyers win the Cup with the current defense and a new goalie? I don't think so.

Can the Flyers win the Cup with the current goalie and an improved defense? I think so.

Also, I'm not sold that Luongo is a significant improvement over Bryz.

I think what people need to look at is that any goalie that has played in tippet's system has been successful. That doesnt mean a guy cant be successful once he leaves.
But I do think bryz can be much more effective if the guys in front of him are willing and have the hockey sense to play better in their own zone.
Same can be said about a lot of goalies, but I think bryz is a level above where he can make a couple of those breakdown saves a game. Its just that ever ither shot attempt can not be of that variety.
- nails

Bryzgalov had the second longest playoff shutout streak with the Ducks, when Dave Tippett was coaching Dallas. He also had a splendid first season in Phoenix that predated Tippett's arrival. Sure his stats improved under Tippett's system, but so would almost every goalie.

What if the trade was Luongo for Bryz. As you said, Luongo is a clear upgrade (Flyers could balance with a pick/s). And, you might ask what's in it for Van... Purely money. For 2013 - Luongo is going into his 3 year of 12 year contract (~45M left to pay at 5.6M cap hit), and Bryz is starting his 2nd year of 9 (~31M left to pay at 5.3M cap hit). These are real rough numbers, but Van makes about $13M. Comcast/Flyers can absorb that hit, not sure if Van owners are rich or poor...
- leon neon

That is one of the only things that would make sense to me in terms of doing it now.
Doesnt bryz have a movement clause?

Vancouver is going with Schneider. It makes zero sense for them to have a backup making 5+ million.
- PLindbergh31

It does, but isn't that what they have now? Plus Bryzgalov is signed to a shorter term and is owed less money. They would save on a buyout.

Thanks for setting the record straight. As much as I missed hockey, I did not miss the crazy rumors. This one made no sense at all unless it was some convoluted 3 way deal.

Perhaps. But he was coming off an injury plagued season where his value was probably at an all time low. I was disappointed at the return at first, but that's being somewhat shortsighted. Got to give Schenn a chance. And by a chance I mean a couple of years, not 20 games.
- PLindbergh31

jvr has a higher ceiling and had already demonstrated that in a playoff situation. pwr forwards sometimes take as long as dmen to mature. i don't dislike schenn, but like jsaq, i wanted more coming back from TOR.

I know. I wasn't saying for you to give him a chance. I just mean in general. Flyers traded from an area of strength to address an area of weakness is basically the crux of why the deal was made.
- PLindbergh31

Understood and totally agree. Personnel wise, the deal made sense for both teams.

I think we're going to find the Schenn-JvR trade is going to work out pretty well for both teams.

The best case scenario for the Flyers is that Luke Schenn develops along the same path as a guy like Brayden Coburn, whom Atlanta/Winnipeg obviously gave up on too quickly in a rush to get into the playoffs that one year.

That is one of the only things that would make sense to me in terms of doing it now.
Doesnt bryz have a movement clause?
- nails

Bryz has a no movement clause. Luongo has a modified NTC

That trade makes zero sense for Vancouver.
- bradleyc4

It does make sebse if you look at it from a contract buy out view.

Understood and totally agree. Personnel wise, the deal made sense for both teams.
- Jsaquella

Yes it did. And in the long run it will most likely be a deal that helps both teams.

I think what people need to look at is that any goalie that has played in tippet's system has been successful. That doesnt mean a guy cant be successful once he leaves.
But I do think bryz can be much more effective if the guys in front of him are willing and have the hockey sense to play better in their own zone.
Same can be said about a lot of goalies, but I think bryz is a level above where he can make a couple of those breakdown saves a game. Its just that ever ither shot attempt can not be of that variety.
- nails

I think people need to look and see that there is no system in existence that will make a player a good Goalie, when he simply isn't one. And that any Goalie would look better when there is solid team defense played in front of him. Don't minimize the players role in looking good in a system. Players make systems work, not the other way around.

How else do you base the value of a 22 year old kid? How he projects is a huge part of his value. Both Schenn & JvR have developed with fits and starts. The ceiling for JvR is likely higher than the ceiling for Luke Schenn.
- Jsaquella

Defenseman are always going to command more on the open market. The potential value to a team is very similar if they each reach what they were projected to do.

We saw flashes of what JVR can do, but thats all they were. The same could be said about Schenn.

Luongo for the Schenn bros
- vancity787

I'll give the Schenn bros for Luongo, a first round pick, and Troll787.

Bryz has a no movement clause. Luongo has a modified NTC
- Jsaquella

So bryz would just veto

jvr has a higher ceiling and had already demonstrated that in a playoff situation. pwr forwards sometimes take as long as dmen to mature. i don't dislike schenn, but like jsaq, i wanted more coming back from TOR.
- isaiah520

I don't think that JVR has a higher ceiling is known right now. JVR played at a high level for a handful of games. Luke Schenn did so for a full Season at a very young age for a defenseman.

jvr has a higher ceiling and had already demonstrated that in a playoff situation. pwr forwards sometimes take as long as dmen to mature. i don't dislike schenn, but like jsaq, i wanted more coming back from TOR.
- isaiah520

I understand those sentiments. It's not like the Flyers traded JVR for some stiff. Schenn has a lot of potential as well. When comparing ceilings for players who play different positions, that can be tricky. For example, does Drew Doughty have a higher ceiling than Claude Giroux? How can anyone answer that question.

The Flyers gave JVR 3 years, and while he showed flashes a person would have to admit for a # 2 pick in the draft he was a disappointment.

I honestly find the trade rumors ridiculous.

I actually find any talk about making moves before training camp a little odd.


But give it 2 months and when nothing happens, fans from the dark side can re-write history.