I think people need to look and see that there is no system in existence that will make a player a good Goalie, when he simply isn't one. And that any Goalie would look better when there is solid team defense played in front of him. Don't minimize the players role in looking good in a system. Players make systems work, not the other way around.
- MJL

I dont disagree with you.
But I do think goalie is a position where when the skaters play well within the system, it makes a goalie better. Maybe the more appropriate statement is that it makes the goalies job easier. The can make average goalies look above average.

Defenseman are always going to command more on the open market. The potential value to a team is very similar if they each reach what they were projected to do.

We saw flashes of what JVR can do, but thats all they were. The same could be said about Schenn.
- flyers2001

The last part is very true, both players showed flashes of being very good NHLers. And both play roles that would be valuable to NHL teams trying to win Stanley Cups.

However, stay at home, shut down defensemen generally lack the value of big, scoring line wingers. There's cases, like with Zdeno Chara & Scott Stevens where the shut down defenseman is viewed with his true value, but in each of those cases there was offensive upside that enhanced the value.

I think we're going to find the Schenn-JvR trade is going to work out pretty well for both teams.

The best case scenario for the Flyers is that Luke Schenn develops along the same path as a guy like Brayden Coburn, whom Atlanta/Winnipeg obviously gave up on too quickly in a rush to get into the playoffs that one year.
- johndewar

The trade is fine. We just either need to get healthy or get another D-man over time. Reality though - we are still a 3-5 seed unless another Weber/Pronger scenario unfolds. And 3 - 5 isn't so bad. I believe the last SC winner wasn't a top seed.

Enjoy G. He's here. He's awesome. The rest is smoke and mirrors.

The trade is fine. We just either need to get healthy or get another D-man over time. Reality though - we are still a 3-5 seed unless another Weber/Pronger scenario unfolds. And 3 - 5 isn't so bad. I believe the last SC winner wasn't a top seed.

Enjoy G. He's here. He's awesome. The rest is smoke and mirrors.
- Daman

Having a top talent like Giroux to watch on a nightly basis sure makes watching a team all the more exciting. I disagree that the rest is all smoke and mirrors though. Sure there are some weaknesses, but there are some very good players on this team.

So bryz would just veto
- nails

Yes, he would fantasy veto this fantasy trade. He would probably veto it in the AM, before his scheduled 10AM Dungeons and Dragons session, followed by lunch, followed by 2 hours of Call of Duty.

Edit - fantasy veto would come after breakfast

So bryz would just veto
- nails

Possibly. But more important is, why would Vancouver trade Luongo for Bryzgalov when the entire idea is to get rid of a big contract to free playing time for Schneider.

Having a top talent like Giroux to watch on a nightly basis sure makes watching a team all the more exciting. I disagree that the rest is all smoke and mirrors though. Sure there are some weaknesses, but there are some very good players on this team.
- PLindbergh31

I meant smoke and mirrors with all the made up talk about a new goalie, we can't win the SC, etc etc. The reality is we have a very good team with tons of youth and talent. We have a chance. We're just not as good (IMO) as 2 or 3 other teams.

Yes, he would fantasy veto this fantasy trade. He would probably veto it in the AM, before his scheduled 10AM Dungeons and Dragons session, followed by lunch, followed by 2 hours of Call of Duty.

Edit - fantasy veto would come after breakfast
- Daman

I imagined bryz as more of a night owl.
Stargazing is harder after sunrise

I meant smoke and mirrors with all the made up talk about a new goalie, we can't win the SC, etc etc. The reality is we have a very good team with tons of youth and talent. We have a chance. We're just not as good (IMO) as 2 or 3 other teams.
- Daman

Agreed

Possibly. But more important is, why would Vancouver trade Luongo for Bryzgalov when the entire idea is to get rid of a big contract to free playing time for Schneider.
- Jsaquella

Ironically, the guy that reported this first, Enrico Ciccone, was a giant meat head when he played.

Clearly, we all needed to listen to THAT guy.

I imagined bryz as more of a night owl.
Stargazing is harder after sunrise
- nails

True!

Possibly. But more important is, why would Vancouver trade Luongo for Bryzgalov when the entire idea is to get rid of a big contract to free playing time for Schneider.
- Jsaquella

If people would ponder that very question they would realize the notion makes absolutely no sense at all.

Possibly. But more important is, why would Vancouver trade Luongo for Bryzgalov when the entire idea is to get rid of a big contract to free playing time for Schneider.
- Jsaquella

Strictly for buy out dollars.
Which ultimately mak we s less sense because the could deal him for a real cheap backup to buy out.
Only thing that realllly makes sense is if we have something they value more

It does make sebse if you look at it from a contract buy out view.
- nails

They can get assets for Luongo from Toronto or Florida. So the fact that Bryz is cheaper to buyout doesn't hold much water for me.

Besides, if you look at the breakouts of buying out both players, Luongo's is almost more attractive. Luongo has an extra year of $5+ cap hit, but also only holds a $121k cap hit the first five years, while Bryz is over $1m after the first year.

I'm excited about Schenn. Most importantly he needs to be viewed NOT as a guy we traded a 2nd pick in the draft for, but as a developing defenseman. The trade is done and over with. If JVR tears it up in the future, so be it, good for him (I'll always root for the Jersey kids). I just want to see Schenn develop into a solid D-man and I think that can happen. A look at the Flyers D this season and the one that played in the playoffs last season shows you just how valuable a guy like Schenn can be. No he's not going to become Adam Foote, but he doesn't have to in order to be a very valuable asset to this team.

As far as the Luongo trade, I believe it would be a 3 team trade with the Flyers sending prospects to VAN, VAN sending Luongo somewhere, and the Flyers getting defense.

The Flyers gave JVR 3 years, and while he showed flashes a person would have to admit for a # 2 pick in the draft he was a disappointment.
- PLindbergh31

In his defense, that was probably the worst draft class since the lockout. After Kane as first overall, the best player in the first round was either Couture (7th) or Pacioretty (22nd).

Strictly for buy out dollars.
Which ultimately mak we s less sense because the could deal him for a real cheap backup to buy out.
Only thing that realllly makes sense is if we have something they value more
- nails

well, the other thing is, the rumor was Nik Grossmann or Brayden Schenn would be the Canucks return, not Bryz.

As far as the Luongo trade, I believe it would be a 3 team trade with the Flyers sending prospects to VAN, VAN sending Luongo somewhere, and the Flyers getting defense.
- Jimmygrazz

What prospects.... if you dont mind?

That wouldnt be a terrible idea, but i dont think it would make much sense.

I would much rather see us put a few eggs in a basket and try to get PK Subban.

well, the other thing is, the rumor was Nik Grossmann or Brayden Schenn would be the Canucks return, not Bryz.
- Jsaquella

Bryz to the leafs

In his defense, that was probably the worst draft class since the lockout. After Kane as first overall, the best player in the first round was either Couture (7th) or Pacioretty (22nd).
- jmatchett

Not a great draft class, but the performance of others in that draft do not effect what JVR does. He came in very highly touted and didn't live up to expectations. He's still a young kid and certainly has time to develop into a excellent player.

Just to clarifiy, if Bryz and/or Luongo were traded, the Flyers & Canucks would be responsible for the reformulation cap hit if they retired before their contracts ended, correct?

Bryz to the leafs
- nails

Bryz for JVR!

In his defense, that was probably the worst draft class since the lockout. After Kane as first overall, the best player in the first round was either Couture (7th) or Pacioretty (22nd).
- jmatchett

Well, there's David Perron, Kevin Shattenkirk, Voracek & Sam Gagner from the 1st round. The 2nd round had PK Subban and Wayne Simmonds. Biggest steal was easily Jamie Benn in round 5

Just to clarifiy, if Bryz and/or Luongo were traded, the Flyers & Canucks would be responsible for the reformulation cap hit if they retired before their contracts ended, correct?
- NickTheKid87

yes