Well just off the top of my head I know the Flyers didn't have a first round pick in 2009, or 2010. That sets you back a good deal right there.
- PLindbergh31

I can't blame them for moving those picks for Chris Pronger. They also got one back when the traded Carter. I'm just not sure on average they really wheel and deal picks any more than other yearly contenders. They just never draft that Shea Weber or Jamie Benn past round 2... other teams occasionally find those guys. You don't even need to find stars, just good players, and they just don't seem to do it.

Responding to all the replies to my Laughton question. I know the Flyers model is to draft the best player available but in this case we really need D.
- SuperSchennBros

The Flyers drafted 4 defensemen last year. They aren't as hyped as the 1st rounders but that typically doesn't mean anything. Look at the top guys in the league. Chara, Keith, and Weber were all taken after the 1st round. Weber was at best the 3rd rated defensmen on Nashville's board the year he was drafted. Then you have Letang, Enstrom, Elder, Campbell, Yandle. Boyle, Girardi and Giodano werent even drafted. Only 2 of the top 10 scoring defensemen last year were 1st rd picks. If you rather use ice time; only three of the top 10 were from the 1st round. Point being, defensemen are so hard to judge that the unheralded guy you get in the 4th rd might be way better than all the hyped ones taken in the 1st.

Some people have questioned Murray's handling of personnel with Adirondack this year. I can understand why he's been second-guessed.

The personnel at Adirondack is terrible. Without Schenn or Couturier, that team flat out stinks.

I completely understand why Murray has handled them the way he has and don't understand how anyone would question how Murray has handled that team.

I can't blame them for moving those picks for Chris Pronger. They also got one back when the traded Carter. I'm just not sure on average they really wheel and deal picks any more than other yearly contenders. They just never draft that Shea Weber or Jamie Benn past round 2... other teams occasionally find those guys. You don't even need to find stars, just good players, and they just don't seem to do it.
- eayost

Last times they did find a late-round gem were probably Tocchet and Hextall. Last real good second rounder was probably Renberg.

That was a bad trade, not a bad contract
- Jsaquella

The trade of him for Manderville turned Philadelphia's fan base into Sadderville.

Last times they did find a late-round gem were probably Tocchet and Hextall. Last real good second rounder was probably Renberg.
- jmatchett

Patrick Sharp was a 3rd round pick.

He's pretty good at hockey.

Last times they did find a late-round gem were probably Tocchet and Hextall. Last real good second rounder was probably Renberg.
- jmatchett

Vinny Prospal was also a 3rd rounder.

The Flyers drafted 4 defensemen last year. They aren't as hyped as the 1st rounders but that typically doesn't mean anything. Look at the top guys in the league. Chara, Keith, and Weber were all taken after the 1st round. Weber was at best the 3rd rated defensmen on Nashville's board the year he was drafted. Then you have Letang, Enstrom, Elder, Campbell, Yandle. Boyle, Girardi and Giodano werent even drafted. Only 2 of the top 10 scoring defensemen last year were 1st rd picks. If you rather use ice time; only three of the top 10 were from the 1st round. Point being, defensemen are so hard to judge that the unheralded guy you get in the 4th rd might be way better than all the hyped ones taken in the 1st.
- psuhockey

Yeah but Chris Pronger was still pretty great.

The Flyers drafted 4 defensemen last year. They aren't as hyped as the 1st rounders but that typically doesn't mean anything. Look at the top guys in the league. Chara, Keith, and Weber were all taken after the 1st round. Weber was at best the 3rd rated defensmen on Nashville's board the year he was drafted. Then you have Letang, Enstrom, Elder, Campbell, Yandle. Boyle, Girardi and Giodano werent even drafted. Only 2 of the top 10 scoring defensemen last year were 1st rd picks. If you rather use ice time; only three of the top 10 were from the 1st round. Point being, defensemen are so hard to judge that the unheralded guy you get in the 4th rd might be way better than all the hyped ones taken in the 1st.
- psuhockey

Here's hoping that Shayne Gostisbehere turns into a top 4 defender!

The personnel at Adirondack is terrible. Without Schenn or Couturier, that team flat out stinks.

I completely understand why Murray has handled them the way he has and don't understand how anyone would question how Murray has handled that team.
- johndewar

I also agree with what Murray has done. But I also understand the complaints. Basically, it falls along the lines of "Well, the team lacks scoring, so why was Akeson in the ECHL, Ford a frequent healthy scratch or 4th liner and Harper (who had 10 goals in the second half last year) a healthy scratch who eventually got sent to the ECHL? Well, the team lacks depth and prospects, so why wasn't there enough AHL time for Noebels?"

But the answer to that is Murray had and has very specific expectations and plans for each player. If the guy didn't perform up to those expectations or (if he wasn't quite ready to), Murray dealt with him accordingly regardless of the team's record or the GF/GA column.

Murph has refused to lower the bar, and I give him credit for that. I do think sometimes his decisions have been impractical -- because the Phantoms aren't deep enough to have options B, C, and D if player A isn't living up to what the coach wants.

In the bigger picture, though, Murray is trying to be a teacher and what he's trying to teach is what it takes to be an NHL player. If he lowers the bar, he's shortchanging his players, although they may not have the maturity and big-picture perspective to understand that. Fans rarely do understand it. They see only the standings and the stats.

Murray is not a yeller and screamer. But he is a tough-love sort of coach.

Here's hoping that Shayne Gostisbehere turns into a top 4 defender!
- NickTheKid87

He showed flashes of what he could be at the wjc this year

He showed flashes of what he could be at the wjc this year
- flyers4487

I'm really excited about his future. If he could be a good top 4 guy, maybe even top 2, I'd be thrilled.

I'm really excited about his future. If he could be a good top 4 guy, maybe even top 2, I'd be thrilled.
- NickTheKid87

He looked very good, just needs to build some muscle over time. He seems like a puck-moving top-4 guy to me, which would be great.

I also agree with what Murray has done. But I also understand the complaints. Basically, it falls along the lines of "Well, the team lacks scoring, so why was Akeson in the ECHL, Ford a frequent healthy scratch or 4th liner and Harper (who had 10 goals in the second half last year) a healthy scratch who eventually got sent to the ECHL? Well, the team lacks depth and prospects, so why wasn't there enough AHL time for Noebels?"

But the answer to that is Murray had and has very specific expectations and plans for each player. If the guy didn't perform up to those expectations or (if he wasn't quite ready to), Murray dealt with him accordingly regardless of the team's record or the GF/GA column.

Murph has refused to lower the bar, and I give him credit for that. I do think sometimes his decisions have been impractical -- because the Phantoms aren't deep enough to have options B, C, and D if player A isn't living up to what the coach wants.

In the bigger picture, though, Murray is trying to be a teacher and what he's trying to teach is what it takes to be an NHL player. If he lowers the bar, he's shortchanging his players, although they may not have the maturity and big-picture perspective to understand that. Fans rarely do understand it. They see only the standings and the stats.

Murray is not a yeller and screamer. But he is a tough-love sort of coach.
- bmeltzer

I couldn't agree more, I mean putting a winning team on the ice would be nice..but isn't the point of a farm team to develop nhl players...not put a winning team on the ice.

It sucks that we would never make a trade with each other... I feel that we'd make decent partners. We pretty much have young puck moving D coming out of our eyes , but have a need for a more stay at home presence and top-6 wingers...

Maybe something like Despres + a pick for Grossman + Voracek/Simmonds.

Too bad Crosby hates Jake

He looked very good, just needs to build some muscle over time. He seems like a puck-moving top-4 guy to me, which would be great.
- jmatchett

He looked like a future pp qb during the USA GER game, I mean he has a long way to go but I have faith.

It sucks that we would never make a trade with each other... I feel that we'd make decent partners. We pretty much have young puck moving D coming out of our eyes , but have a need for a more stay at home presence and top-6 wingers...

Maybe something like Despres + a pick for Grossman + Voracek/Simmonds.

Too bad Crosby hates Jake
- nhindian

I would rather blow up both of our teams then help you win anything!

Yeah it's hard to make trades inside your own division.
I was actually pleased we got Talbot. I try very hard to not hold his tour as a Penguin against him.
There are a few players on the Penguins I can't stand. But I honestly don't mind most of the team.
However, I adore Grossmann I'm hoping he stays healthy so we can see him more in action and I'd slit his throat before wanting to see him play for the Penguins
Of course that's just my opinion

It sucks that we would never make a trade with each other... I feel that we'd make decent partners. We pretty much have young puck moving D coming out of our eyes , but have a need for a more stay at home presence and top-6 wingers...

Maybe something like Despres + a pick for Grossman + Voracek/Simmonds.

Too bad Crosby hates Jake
- nhindian

You think Despres is good enough to fetch Grossmann AND Voracek or Simmonds? I haven't seen him play up close but that seems like a gross overvaluing.

Greatest Thing Ever
- Jsaquella

pump in some Five Finger Death Punch

I couldn't agree more, I mean putting a winning team on the ice would be nice..but isn't the point of a farm team to develop nhl players...not put a winning team on the ice.
- flyers4487

I agree. It would be nice if the Phantoms won but I feel the ultimate goal is develop players, hopefully for the NHL, and if Murray & the organization feel that this is being accomplished in the best way possible, then keep on keeping on.

You think Despres is good enough to fetch Grossmann AND Voracek or Simmonds? I haven't seen him play up close but that seems like a gross overvaluing.
- NickTheKid87

The problem with Despres, right now, is that he's not a proven commodity. He seems like a poor man's Letang, in that he can play physically but also has some nice offensive skills. The only problem is that his NHL sample size is so small. I wouldn't want to trade a proven shutdown defender for him, yet.

The problem with Despres, right now, is that he's not a proven commodity. He seems like a poor man's Letang, in that he can play physically but also has some nice offensive skills. The only problem is that his NHL sample size is so small. I wouldn't want to trade a proven shutdown defender for him, yet.
- jmatchett

Same here. And I wouldn't move Simmer or Jake until you know what you're getting, if at all.

You think Despres is good enough to fetch Grossmann AND Voracek or Simmonds? I haven't seen him play up close but that seems like a gross overvaluing.
- NickTheKid87

Obviously the pick would be a high one!

If he pans out, he could easily be a top pair puck mover with size and finesse. Something like a Letang lite

That makes more sense. I guess they'd rather have another Mike Richards-esque player than a Hal Gill sort.
- NickTheKid87

I still would have preferred Maatta. He won't be a power play defenseman in the NHL but he's projects to be a very solid second pairing defensive D who is also a good puck mover (even if his point totals are modest). I don't think Laughton has anything near Richards' offensive upside at the same age. I'd rather have the second-pair D than the third-line center especially when his strengths as a player are pretty redundant to Sean Couturier's strengths without his offensive upside.