Yotes goal song is Black Keys "Howlin for You" with real yote howl mixed in...nice

On the 2nd disallowed goal, the whistle was blown before the puck crossed the goal line. So there isn't anyway it could be considered a good goal. You can argue the ref wasn't in the right position, or shouldn't have blown the whistle. But by rule it's not a goal.
- MJL

i argue that the ref was in a bad position, and if your position is THAT bad let the play go and if it needs to be reviewed later then it needs to be reviewed later. and a ref with that much experience should know better.

addressing a need is good but i am 100% against a couturier for subban trade
- Don'tForgetTocchet

Couts is awesome now and I think is about 50% of the player he will be in the future.
He needs some strength staying on his feet, which is going to come, hopefully his skating improves too.

I was ok yesterday, today I lost it with the calls a bit today too.
I'm still honked off a bit about the lock out, but will watch every game anyway.

I like all the young forwards they have, and starting to think that about another year for Kimmo at a reduced salary might be a good idea.
- Marc D

kimmo should be capt imo

In regards to van Massenhoven's positioning on the play blown dead in the third, I knew that I had complained about him before...here's a column by Kerry Fraser from May of 2011, answering a question from some dude in Jersey:

http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/kerry_fraser/?id=365955

Hey Kerry,

My question is about positioning - there seem to be quite a few refs that seem to be in a bad spot to make calls quite often. Is there a league guideline on positioning for certain plays? It infuriates me when I see a ref blow a loose puck dead because he's hanging out at the side boards, rather than being close to a scrum at the front of the net.

John Saquella - New Jersey

John:

I have to tell you this really bothers me as well. If the referee is IN the play or becomes PART of the play he is unable to see effectively to make a call. I don't want to make this answer a referee positioning seminar but I need to cover some basics.

In 1982 I designed a referee positioning philosophy that was ultimately adopted by the Canadian Hockey Association and portions of which were incorporated by USA Hockey. One of the primary premises of the philosophy is to recognize key areas on the ice where players most frequently battle for the puck or occupy space. Prime battle areas are the corners of the end zone extending back behind the goal and primary cycle areas down low. The referee needs to read the play in advance and vacate these high traffic areas as he keeps the play in front of him wherever possible. The area that the referee should work along the side boards in the end zone extends from the goal line up to the hash marks at the faceoff circle against the boards. If he is bumped by play to either of these "last stand" lines the referee should pivot out allowing play to go behind him for a split second then rotate his hips and push back on a 45-degree angle to assume the other safe vantage point.

If the lane is clear behind the goal then he should skate backward quickly, well in advance of the play collapsing behind him, to the assume a safe position away from the battle on the other side of the net; all the while looking at the play in front of him.

From the goal line a referee should work like a piston driving back and forth along the line depending on where play is. If the puck is being battled for on the opposite side of the net to where the ref is standing he should be close to halfway along the goal line from the end boards and the net. As play approaches him he should retreat toward the side wall and bump up toward the hash marks as play dictates.

When play is at the goal it is imperative that the referee drives to the net in a scramble. Rather than the whistle blowing because the "referee lost sight of the puck," I believe patience with the whistle is more often required and it is the referee's job to find the puck prior to killing the play even if he must quickly get to the other side of the net to determine this. Example being that the referee locates the puck and knows it is frozen in the goalies glove or under his pad as opposed to sitting uncovered but out of the view of the referee.

What drives me crazy is when I see the referees standing in the highest traffic area in the end zone; namely with their back to the end boards straddling the goalie trapezoid line. This is no man's land for a referee. Players battle for the puck here in a restricted space and the referee often becomes part of the play as players collapse on him from both sides. It's at point that the referee at the blue line has to lend support and perhaps make a long distance call.

The bottom line here is to give way to the players in the high traffic areas in advance of the battles and establish a continuous neutral vantage point to view the play.

Granted, what Fraser wrote IS opinion, but I happen to agree with him.

In regards to van Massenhoven's positioning on the play blown dead in the third, I knew that I had complained about him before...here's a column by Kerry Fraser from May of 2011, answering a question from some dude in Jersey:

http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/kerry_fraser/?id=365955

Hey Kerry,

My question is about positioning - there seem to be quite a few refs that seem to be in a bad spot to make calls quite often. Is there a league guideline on positioning for certain plays? It infuriates me when I see a ref blow a loose puck dead because he's hanging out at the side boards, rather than being close to a scrum at the front of the net.

John Saquella - New Jersey

John:

I have to tell you this really bothers me as well. If the referee is IN the play or becomes PART of the play he is unable to see effectively to make a call. I don't want to make this answer a referee positioning seminar but I need to cover some basics.

In 1982 I designed a referee positioning philosophy that was ultimately adopted by the Canadian Hockey Association and portions of which were incorporated by USA Hockey. One of the primary premises of the philosophy is to recognize key areas on the ice where players most frequently battle for the puck or occupy space. Prime battle areas are the corners of the end zone extending back behind the goal and primary cycle areas down low. The referee needs to read the play in advance and vacate these high traffic areas as he keeps the play in front of him wherever possible. The area that the referee should work along the side boards in the end zone extends from the goal line up to the hash marks at the faceoff circle against the boards. If he is bumped by play to either of these "last stand" lines the referee should pivot out allowing play to go behind him for a split second then rotate his hips and push back on a 45-degree angle to assume the other safe vantage point.

If the lane is clear behind the goal then he should skate backward quickly, well in advance of the play collapsing behind him, to the assume a safe position away from the battle on the other side of the net; all the while looking at the play in front of him.

From the goal line a referee should work like a piston driving back and forth along the line depending on where play is. If the puck is being battled for on the opposite side of the net to where the ref is standing he should be close to halfway along the goal line from the end boards and the net. As play approaches him he should retreat toward the side wall and bump up toward the hash marks as play dictates.

When play is at the goal it is imperative that the referee drives to the net in a scramble. Rather than the whistle blowing because the "referee lost sight of the puck," I believe patience with the whistle is more often required and it is the referee's job to find the puck prior to killing the play even if he must quickly get to the other side of the net to determine this. Example being that the referee locates the puck and knows it is frozen in the goalies glove or under his pad as opposed to sitting uncovered but out of the view of the referee.

What drives me crazy is when I see the referees standing in the highest traffic area in the end zone; namely with their back to the end boards straddling the goalie trapezoid line. This is no man's land for a referee. Players battle for the puck here in a restricted space and the referee often becomes part of the play as players collapse on him from both sides. It's at point that the referee at the blue line has to lend support and perhaps make a long distance call.

The bottom line here is to give way to the players in the high traffic areas in advance of the battles and establish a continuous neutral vantage point to view the play.
- Jsaquella

awesome stuff

wish frazier was still calling games

In regards to van Massenhoven's positioning on the play blown dead in the third, I knew that I had complained about him before...here's a column by Kerry Fraser from May of 2011, answering a question from some dude in Jersey:

http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/kerry_fraser/?id=365955

Hey Kerry,

My question is about positioning - there seem to be quite a few refs that seem to be in a bad spot to make calls quite often. Is there a league guideline on positioning for certain plays? It infuriates me when I see a ref blow a loose puck dead because he's hanging out at the side boards, rather than being close to a scrum at the front of the net.

John Saquella - New Jersey

John:

I have to tell you this really bothers me as well. If the referee is IN the play or becomes PART of the play he is unable to see effectively to make a call. I don't want to make this answer a referee positioning seminar but I need to cover some basics.

In 1982 I designed a referee positioning philosophy that was ultimately adopted by the Canadian Hockey Association and portions of which were incorporated by USA Hockey. One of the primary premises of the philosophy is to recognize key areas on the ice where players most frequently battle for the puck or occupy space. Prime battle areas are the corners of the end zone extending back behind the goal and primary cycle areas down low. The referee needs to read the play in advance and vacate these high traffic areas as he keeps the play in front of him wherever possible. The area that the referee should work along the side boards in the end zone extends from the goal line up to the hash marks at the faceoff circle against the boards. If he is bumped by play to either of these "last stand" lines the referee should pivot out allowing play to go behind him for a split second then rotate his hips and push back on a 45-degree angle to assume the other safe vantage point.

If the lane is clear behind the goal then he should skate backward quickly, well in advance of the play collapsing behind him, to the assume a safe position away from the battle on the other side of the net; all the while looking at the play in front of him.

From the goal line a referee should work like a piston driving back and forth along the line depending on where play is. If the puck is being battled for on the opposite side of the net to where the ref is standing he should be close to halfway along the goal line from the end boards and the net. As play approaches him he should retreat toward the side wall and bump up toward the hash marks as play dictates.

When play is at the goal it is imperative that the referee drives to the net in a scramble. Rather than the whistle blowing because the "referee lost sight of the puck," I believe patience with the whistle is more often required and it is the referee's job to find the puck prior to killing the play even if he must quickly get to the other side of the net to determine this. Example being that the referee locates the puck and knows it is frozen in the goalies glove or under his pad as opposed to sitting uncovered but out of the view of the referee.

What drives me crazy is when I see the referees standing in the highest traffic area in the end zone; namely with their back to the end boards straddling the goalie trapezoid line. This is no man's land for a referee. Players battle for the puck here in a restricted space and the referee often becomes part of the play as players collapse on him from both sides. It's at point that the referee at the blue line has to lend support and perhaps make a long distance call.

The bottom line here is to give way to the players in the high traffic areas in advance of the battles and establish a continuous neutral vantage point to view the play.
- Jsaquella

if only they listened

i argue that the ref was in a bad position, and if your position is THAT bad let the play go and if it needs to be reviewed later then it needs to be reviewed later. and a ref with that much experience should know better.
- Don'tForgetTocchet

It's not a reviewable play regardless. If the puck had fallen to the side where the ref was on, he would have been in a good position. It's a very fast game and a difficult situation for the ref to always be in the best position. That's the breaks of the game.

kimmo should be capt imo
- Don'tForgetTocchet

if up to you, would you give him 1 more yr if he wants it?
and for how much?
5M too much?

if up to you, would you give him 1 more yr if he wants it?
and for how much?
5M too much?
- Marc D

With the cap dropping, and Kimmo being 37, I'd be willing to go one year, $3.5-$4mm with a wink and nod agreement that he'd be guaranteed a second year to be signed in January or so, to avoid a multi-year over 35 deal

if up to you, would you give him 1 more yr if he wants it?
and for how much?
5M too much?
- Marc D

with the reduced cap i'd be looking for 1 yr 3.5 or less, but i love him and think he has been the one guy over the last several years who has been nothing but a warrior for this team, and should be captain.

With the cap dropping, and Kimmo being 37, I'd be willing to go one year, $3.5-$4mm with a wink and nod agreement that he'd be guaranteed a second year to be signed in January or so, to avoid a multi-year over 35 deal
- Jsaquella

ha interesting we both mentioned 3.5

ha interesting we both mentioned 3.5
- Don'tForgetTocchet

I was basically splitting his AAV now in half, or close to it.

It's not a reviewable play regardless. If the puck had fallen to the side where the ref was on, he would have been in a good position. It's a very fast game and a difficult situation for the ref to always be in the best position. That's the breaks of the game.
- MJL

if it was one goal pulled i'd blow it off but the fact that it was two good ones leaves me in a position that i'm pissed off and i have a problem with the way the game was called. it's bullpoop.

if it was one goal pulled i'd blow it off but the fact that it was two good ones leaves me in a position that i'm pissed off and i have a problem with the way the game was called. it's bullpoop.
- Don'tForgetTocchet

Well, to be fair the first blown call was Steve Kozari. van Massenhoven was the fat slob that was lazy getting into position.

It's not a reviewable play regardless. If the puck had fallen to the side where the ref was on, he would have been in a good position. It's a very fast game and a difficult situation for the ref to always be in the best position. That's the breaks of the game.
- MJL

And a lazy ref who's been cited for his lack of putting himself in a good position behind the net in Bill's thread numerous times over the years. A prior complaint about him led me to saving this in my favorites, wishing he'd move on to car sales:



Lazy guy probably sells cars that need work under the hood, judging from that pic.

EDIT: Had to save to my Xanga account after realizing its original site is blocked here at HB.

with the reduced cap i'd be looking for 1 yr 3.5 or less, but i love him and think he has been the one guy over the last several years who has been nothing but a warrior for this team, and should be captain.
- Don'tForgetTocchet

he would be a great captain, no doubt

especially if they could have worked something out for next yr

Josh Harding, diagnosed with MS over the summer notched his 7th career shutout tonight, beating Jaromir Jagr and Dallas 1-0

Josh Harding, diagnosed with MS over the summer notched his 7th career shutout tonight, beating Jaromir Jagr and Dallas 1-0
- Jsaquella

MS for real?

ugh, not good

And a lazy ref who's been cited for his lack of putting himself in a good position behind the net in Bill's thread numerous times over the years. A prior complaint about him led me to saving this in my favorites, wishing he'd move on to car sales:



Lazy guy probably sells cars that need work under the hood, judging from that pic.
- Flyskippy

This is from Bill's twitter feed.
Bill Meltzer ‏@billmeltzer

Look at how far our of position DVM was on this call. Didn't hustle for better look, Took 1 lazy stride and waved off.




Now, while I'm a bit upset at the call, it's not why they Flyers lost.

MS for real?

ugh, not good
- Marc D

Yeah, actually the diagnosis was announced after Thanksgiving

http://www.startribune.co...ld/181297631.html?refer=y

This is from Bill's twitter feed.
Bill Meltzer ‏@billmeltzer

Look at how far our of position DVM was on this call. Didn't hustle for better look, Took 1 lazy stride and waved off.


- Jsaquella

Picture worth many words

Well, to be fair the first blown call was Steve Kozari. van Massenhoven was the fat slob that was lazy getting into position.
- Jsaquella

and i wish ill events on both of them.

Diana C. Nearhos ‏@dianacnearhos

I'm told McGinn did not return to Glens Falls with the Phantoms, but no move has been made. Probably depends on Rinaldo's status.

Looks like Tye McGinn will get a call i Rinaldo is out for awhile.

Yeah, actually the diagnosis was announced after Thanksgiving

http://www.startribune.co...ld/181297631.html?refer=y
- Jsaquella

that disease is just so random...
can be symptom free and then lose feeling in an arm or leg, or lose your vision, or balance, or coordination. With no predictable course. Very very scary stuff.