Carle got the Leino deal...
- mayorofangrytown

It's not as gross an overpayment, but yeah.

You are so completely wrong and you know it.

Same systems for decades?
- Flyersgod

Yes for decades. 1-2-2, 2-1-2, Left Wing lock, Neutral zone trap. Has all been around for decades. Jaques Lemaire learned the Neutral zone trap from his playing days in Montreal back in the 1950's. None of it is revolutionary, or new. Show me how I'm wrong? It's clear that you have a poor understanding of Hockey systems.

Be careful. That windsheild our brutal today. I think of are pour couch, Joe Pa being past a year ago. smdh
- Jsaquella

WE ARE (a cult)!

i dont know how you guys went from wanting to making a statue of holmgrens brass balls when he offersheeted weber to now saying he is the problem with this team. its only been three games, and the players have just underperformed. but saying he should be scrutinized for not giving carle his 5 million. thats insane. yes you guys need a puck mover right now but carle or that? trust me, giving a slightly above average defenseman 5 million a year is not fun. if you need one that bad you can have paul martin
- stayinthefnnet

We're not blaming Holmgren, we're all just disappointed in how the offseason turned out. It wasn't really Homer's fault and most people agree that Carle got too much.

One large issue I noticed is that none of the flyers could take a pass on the tape. The only one who seemed like they could was Giroux (in the first 2 games) and Scott Laughton (which is why he has looked so good.). Go back and look every pass is in the skates off the boards and every one timer has to be settled first.

I also love how they talk about how well simmonds has played getting to the net. But how many open net chances is he going to shank?

Bryz has been our best player, anyone who thinks he's been less than stellar should also realize that everyone else has been worse.

I also don't think this is a systems thing. There isn't a system availible that would let a team win with this level of mistakes.

One bright spot. I liked the goalie roughing penalty simmonds took. Before that our team looked defeated. I feel it challenged the rest of the team to play better even though the game was lost. That second half was our best defensive effort. Killing off 2 three on fives & multiple other dumb penalties. Our pk needed the practice. Players seemed to stop worrying about making mistakes and started to do the little things needed to win. I hope with Danny b getting back soon we can have someone else around the net who can snipe th opposing goalie. Someone with some better hands.

i dont know how you guys went from wanting to making a statue of holmgrens brass balls when he offersheeted weber to now saying he is the problem with this team. its only been three games, and the players have just underperformed. but saying he should be scrutinized for not giving carle his 5 million. thats insane. yes you guys need a puck mover right now but carle or that? trust me, giving a slightly above average defenseman 5 million a year is not fun. if you need one that bad you can have paul martin
- stayinthefnnet

There's always someone on every thread who wants the GMs head. I'll keep him. I like my GMs bold. We had one twenty years ago who fiddled while the Spectrum was on fire with Lindros in his back pocket and I don't want to go back to that.

WE ARE (a cult)!
- NickTheKid87

Based solely off twitter, I want fansince09, Jose Canseco and the Iron Sheik to star in a buddy comedy.

One large issue I noticed is that none of the flyers could take a pass on the tape. The only one who seemed like they could was Giroux (in the first 2 games) and Scott Laughton (which is why he has looked so good.). Go back and look every pass is in the skates off the boards and every one timer has to be settled first.

I also love how they talk about how well simmonds has played getting to the net. But how many open net chances is he going to shank?

Bryz has been our best player, anyone who thinks he's been less than stellar should also realize that everyone else has been worse.

I also don't think this is a systems thing. There isn't a system availible that would let a team win with this level of mistakes.

One bright spot. I liked the goalie roughing penalty simmonds took. Before that our team looked defeated. I feel it challenged the rest of the team to play better even though the game was lost. That second half was our best defensive effort. Killing off 2 three on fives & multiple other dumb penalties. Our pk needed the practice. Players seemed to stop worrying about making mistakes and started to do the little things needed to win. I hope with Danny b getting back soon we can have someone else around the net who can snipe th opposing goalie. Someone with some better hands.
- flyler

Take your logical, well thought out opinions and shove them...we're burning this mother down

i dont know how you guys went from wanting to making a statue of holmgrens brass balls when he offersheeted weber to now saying he is the problem with this team. its only been three games, and the players have just underperformed. but saying he should be scrutinized for not giving carle his 5 million. thats insane. yes you guys need a puck mover right now but carle or that? trust me, giving a slightly above average defenseman 5 million a year is not fun. if you need one that bad you can have paul martin
- stayinthefnnet

the point is if players perform you should want to keep them, he didnt even negotiate with carle instead told him to "hold tight" while homer tried to make a big splash. there was no question carle wanted money similar to wideman now on calgary and rightfully so. the market fluctuates with every signing. so carle puts consistent numbers, is always healthy and reliable and you let him walk. no we pay the price watching kurtis foster and bruno gervais.

the point is if players perform you should want to keep them, he didnt even negotiate with carle instead told him to "hold tight" while homer tried to make a big splash. there was no question carle wanted money similar to wideman now on calgary and rightfully so. the market fluctuates with every signing. so carle puts consistent numbers, is always healthy and reliable and you let him walk. no we pay the price watching kurtis foster and bruno gervais.
- Flyers4Life88

And if they had landed Shea Weber? Because if they re-sign Carle for $5.5mm, that ends any and all pursuit of Weber and/or Suter.

Today, I'm three games into a season. There's still a cup to be won. I call Subban's agent and tell him what I'd be willing to pay PK. Say 6 which is probably what he's looking for. Then I call Bergevin and I dangle Schenn straight up and see where we can go from there. Right now I try to fix the D with someone young and I think Subban will bring an attitude that this team is sorely lacking right now. I would never even entertain the word "Tank" in the first week of a season and I'm shocked that you think any of that is a good idea today.
- mayorofangrytown

Your not dealing with Nashville. Montreal would match the offer...Your going to have to give up couts or schenn...

Adding weber makes you a cup cotender.....Subban =/= Weber

Jags loved it here, wasn't about the money....he was playing with claude giroux, let me repeat that he was playing with claude giroux. he would've signed for way less than 4.5 to stay in philly. prob the same 3 or 3.5
- Flyers4Life88

how can you know that Jagr would have taken the same?
Bill said he needed at least a small raise to stay here, as much as he liked playing with G.
and at the time, they didn't foresee a 48 game season.
Jagr was breaking down a lot last year, and taking time away from guys like Schenn and Couts. Obviously they are struggling now, but this season is valuable for those two and they are the future. Look, I hated Jagr before last year, and then quickly loved him for his attitude and work ethic. I just think it was time to move on.

and carle is 28 y.o have em till hes 34 and he earned his 5.5 with seasons with 38,40 and 35 pts. and a plus 53 over 3 seasons!

I'm a Carle supporter, but 6 yr $33M is too much. He would have been crucified here. He is a solid player, but also had his share of huge turn overs and his shot was non existent. Good puck mover, which they sorely need. I would not have given him the money. Rather try and develop Gusty who showed real flashes against the Pens last year.

but u resign simmonds and hartsy before the season even starts and simmonds has only been here a year?

I love Simonds game, he is hard on the puck, tough, great forechecker and can play in front of the net. Sacrifices himself for the team. A near perfect role player plus for the Flyers. Hartsy's deal was too long but whatever.

There's always someone on every thread who wants the GMs head. I'll keep him. I like my GMs bold. We had one twenty years ago who fiddled while the Spectrum was on fire with Lindros in his back pocket and I don't want to go back to that.
- mayorofangrytown

yeah holmgren is a bad ass dude. he isnt overly timid. yeah the brzy deal is kindve bad, but you have to at least respect the fact that he went all in on what was the best available solution to the organizations biggest hole. the flyers are stacked with obscene young talent that has shown it can compete now, and will only get better in the future. he did his best to land the big fish in weber, and when that didnt work, there really werent many secondary options out there for good defensemen this free agency period. the next biggest name was carle, who sucked to lose but holmgren wisely let him go get much more than he was worth somewhere else

We're not blaming Holmgren, we're all just disappointed in how the offseason turned out. It wasn't really Homer's fault and most people agree that Carle got too much.
- NickTheKid87

The deal with Carle is this. You have a team that is limited on Cap space, in combination with the Cap going down next year. You have a need for a #1 defenseman. If you make that deal with Carle. It severely limits your ability to get the player you need if it becomes available. If you still have Pronger, and you have the space to signe Carle, you do it. But the Flyers in their situation would've been hamstrung to do it. They need to keep some flexibility for the future. They miss Carle no doubt. But if Carle is on this team right now, they're very likely still 0-3 right now.

Based solely off twitter, I want fansince09, Jose Canseco and the Iron Sheik to star in a buddy comedy.
- Jsaquella

That would be one of the greatest things ever. Creighton Rabs would have to make a cameo.

Your not dealing with Nashville. Montreal would match the offer...Your going to have to give up couts or schenn...

Adding weber makes you a cup cotender.....Subban =/= Weber
- Philly1980

honestly.. I think the Flyers should seriously consider looking at Niedereiter and Visnovsky..

That would be one of the greatest things ever. Creighton Rabs would have to make a cameo.
- NickTheKid87

He could play the bumhole neighbor

the point is if players perform you should want to keep them, he didnt even negotiate with carle instead told him to "hold tight" while homer tried to make a big splash. there was no question carle wanted money similar to wideman now on calgary and rightfully so. the market fluctuates with every signing. so carle puts consistent numbers, is always healthy and reliable and you let him walk. no we pay the price watching kurtis foster and bruno gervais.
- Flyers4Life88

youre definitely right, foster and gervais are just scraping the bottom of the barrel for stop gap options. but youd really rather have carle at 5 mil a season? even taking aside the weber implications at the time, thats still just a contract that will ultimately make retaining your young guns that much harder

honestly.. I think the Flyers should seriously consider looking at Niedereiter and Visnovsky..
- jak521

I was thinking the same thing. Who knows? Maybe Nino can become the John LeClair of that deal. He's scored at every level he's played at.

The deal with Carle is this. You have a team that is limited on Cap space, in combination with the Cap going down next year. You have a need for a #1 defenseman. If you make that deal with Carle. It severely limits your ability to get the player you need if it becomes available. If you still have Pronger, and you have the space to signe Carle, you do it. But the Flyers in their situation would've been hamstrung to do it. They need to keep some flexibility for the future. They miss Carle no doubt. But if Carle is on this team right now, they're very likely still 0-3 right now.
- MJL

Since the start of last season we have lost Pronger, Carle, JvR, and Jagr (off the top of my head) and have gained Grossmann, Schenn, Gervais, Foster and Rusty. If people didnt expect to see a drop in play (even if marginally) they were fooling themselves.

What we need is a d-man who can skate and move the puck well.. They come at a premium, but we may find out that we need to pay that premium.

And if they had landed Shea Weber? Because if they re-sign Carle for $5.5mm, that ends any and all pursuit of Weber and/or Suter.
- Jsaquella

IMo the offer sheet was lame, i understand homer was tryin to get him without losing any players, but the fact of the matter is, weber would be a flyer right now if homer would have agreed to trade for his rights which leads to the question i proposed. do u take a franchise number 1 Norris trophy finalist year in year out or a Potential Jordan stall selke finalist in 4-5 years...

I was thinking the same thing. Who knows? Maybe Nino can become the John LeClair of that deal. He's scored at every level he's played at.
- NickTheKid87

I wouldnt over pay, but I would definitely give it a shot..

Since the start of last season we have lost Pronger, Carle, JvR, and Jagr (off the top of my head) and have gained Grossmann, Schenn, Gervais, Foster and Rusty. If people didnt expect to see a drop in play (even if marginally) they were fooling themselves.

What we need is a d-man who can skate and move the puck well.. They come at a premium, but we may find out that we need to pay that premium.
- jak521

The bigger problem is in the drop of play from Giroux, Timonen, Hartnell, Voracek, Coburn and Grossmann.

IMo the offer sheet was lame, i understand homer was tryin to get him without losing any players, but the fact of the matter is, weber would be a flyer right now if homer would have agreed to trade for his rights which leads to the question i proposed. do u take a franchise number 1 Norris trophy finalist year in year out or a Potential Jordan stall selke finalist in 4-5 years...
- Flyers4Life88

It would have cost more than Couts. Likely Couts, Schenn +

IMo the offer sheet was lame, i understand homer was tryin to get him without losing any players, but the fact of the matter is, weber would be a flyer right now if homer would have agreed to trade for his rights which leads to the question i proposed. do u take a franchise number 1 Norris trophy finalist year in year out or a Potential Jordan stall selke finalist in 4-5 years...
- Flyers4Life88

i definitely agree with you there. that is the one thing i thing holmgren miscalculated. he thought he could get the best defenseman in the league purely through hard ball. if the inclusion of coots is the only thing that prevented you guys from getting weber, it was an error.