So if upper management thinks the system needs to change, but it doesn't or doesn't succeed, their first (and easiest) target will be the head coach.


Not that I think it's the right thing to do, though.
- Pecafan Fan

Im assumi g we all know this already.. not sure what u r getting at?

Our players had career years last year and had the same issues they have now. Their career highs would have to become the norm for them to compete like last year.

Imo of course
- Flyersgod

Which is more than possible consider the ages of Schenn, Couturier, Voracek, etc. I expect them to have better years than last year, if not now then in the near future. As for Talbot & Hartnell, I never expected Talbot to match his year last year offensively but his defensive game has been so-so. Hartnell might not score a pro-rated 37 goals but if he could give you his normal numbers of 25-30, things would be different.

I don't even feel like it's the system as much as it's the players simply not playing well enough. In a way, Holmgren also failed to give Lavy the pieces he needs to properly execute the system he wants to run. We lost out on Suter, Parise, Carle and Weber in the offseason. One or more of these guys would make a huge difference.
- NickTheKid87

I by no means meant to blame everything on a system.. the players have stunk and thr had his worst off season to date.

Which is more than possible consider the ages of Schenn, Couturier, Voracek, etc. I expect them to have better years than last year, if not now then in the near future. As for Talbot & Hartnell, I never expected Talbot to match his year last year offensively but his defensive game has been so-so. Hartnell might not score a pro-rated 37 goals but if he could give you his normal numbers of 25-30, things would be different.
- NickTheKid87

Schenn has proven nothing to me so far. I dont see super star or mike richards in him.

But people who get paid to do this see his potential.

I by no means meant to blame everything on a system.. the players have stunk and thr had his worst off season to date.
- Flyersgod

I would not be shocked to see a move similar to the Recchi for LeClair & Desjardins trade made in 1995 if the team continues to struggle. At least adding a Desjardins type dman.

The big picture being?
- Flyersgod

The Flyers have a lot of young players in key spots. And they are not a finished product in terms of building the team.

I by no means meant to blame everything on a system.. the players have stunk and thr had his worst off season to date.
- Flyersgod

If your going to have a bad year this is a good one to do it. It is a short season. Best draft in a bunch of years. Some good UFA talent on the market this summer.

Perhaps the obvious is being ignored. The Flyers made a big play for Weber and missed. They lost Carle while they were trying to get Weber. Pronger is down with a career ending injury. This is about fate. Holmgren will adjust. This is about skill and talent. Change the coach or system but the problem remains the same.
- spatso

The problem remians the same as far as being a top team and a true contender. But that is not why they are 0-3, and playing the way they are.

what do you guys think their record will be in the first 10 games?

(3/7) Just a guess.

When is it time to hit the blow up button on the season and restock the cupboards?

Not sure if it's been posted but Brayden Schenn has a disciplinary hearing with Brendan Shanahan at 1:30 today.

I don't even feel like it's the system as much as it's the players simply not playing well enough. In a way, Holmgren also failed to give Lavy the pieces he needs to properly execute the system he wants to run. We lost out on Suter, Parise, Carle and Weber in the offseason. One or more of these guys would make a huge difference.
- NickTheKid87

That's what I have been saying all along. The team has been executing so poorly. it's hard for me to fault the system or even the lack of mobility on defense.

Yes, there has been a few instances where the lack of mobility has been an issue, but for the most part that has been where a turnover or other mistake ended up leaving the defensemen in a bad position.

I do agree that the players that Holmgren added don't exactly fit the system Laviolette used last year. The effort was there-he tried to land Weber and Suter-but they ended up not landing either.

That means it's incumbent on Laviolette to make changes. I think he has made changes, but the poor execution has made those changes moot.

what do you guys think their record will be in the first 10 games?

(3/7) Just a guess.

When is it time to hit the blow up button on the season and restock the cupboards?
- Philly1980

I think they'll be 4-6 but if worse comes to worst, I am all for them sucking for Seth Jones.

Im assumi g we all know this already.. not sure what u r getting at?
- Flyersgod

A knee jerk reaction after 3 games would be dumb.

I think they'll be 4-6 but if worse comes to worst, I am all for them sucking for Seth Jones.
- NickTheKid87

Best season to do this. Get a kid thats going to be the next pronger in a few years....best part is youll have pronger to teach him lol....

That's what I have been saying all along. The team has been executing so poorly. it's hard for me to fault the system or even the lack of mobility on defense.

Yes, there has been a few instances where the lack of mobility has been an issue, but for the most part that has been where a turnover or other mistake ended up leaving the defensemen in a bad position.

I do agree that the players that Holmgren added don't exactly fit the system Laviolette used last year. The effort was there-he tried to land Weber and Suter-but they ended up not landing either.

That means it's incumbent on Laviolette to make changes. I think he has made changes, but the poor execution has made those changes moot.
- Jsaquella

Exactly. I think the system has become irrelevant with the way the players have been playing. It would be hard to execute ANY system with everyone playing so poorly.

He's said it's always been his dream.
- Jsaquella

he was just on the Fan 590 and...


ok ok ok .....I wont....new "me"

I would not be shocked to see a move similar to the Recchi for LeClair & Desjardins trade made in 1995 if the team continues to struggle. At least adding a Desjardins type dman.
- NickTheKid87

I really think this is the right way to go.

Nobody wins a Stanley Cup without having a very good #1 D who can control the tempo on the ice, run the power play, get the puck up ice on the breakout. The Flyers have the pieces to be able to acquire that type of player. It does not have to be Karlsson or Doughty or Pieterangelo. A #1 D is not necessarily your best player. But, like a point guard in basketball he makes all your good players so much better.

what do you guys think their record will be in the first 10 games?

(3/7) Just a guess.

When is it time to hit the blow up button on the season and restock the cupboards?
- Philly1980

Maybe never. If Brayden Schenn & Sean Couturier were untouchables last season, 3 bad games shouldn't change that. The Flyers are counting heavily on younger players to do heavy lifting. When you do that, you face ups and downs as they develop.

look at 2006-07. The Flyers expected Richards and Carter to step up and play like veterans. By and large they didn't meet expectations for that season. However the next year they did.

That said, even if this ends up being a non playoff season, I don't think a wholesale rebuild is in order. Augment the good young players that are on hand, don't trade them away in panic moves.

Exactly. I think the system has become irrelevant with the way the players have been playing. It would be hard to execute ANY system with everyone playing so poorly.
- NickTheKid87

It's really pretty simple to understand. It's not a complicated game. System is just a word that some like to throw around.

Best season to do this. Get a kid thats going to be the next pronger in a few years....best part is youll have pronger to teach him lol....
- Philly1980

Honestly, if the Flyers sucked enough to draft in the top 5, I would trade the pick back into the early-middle 1st round to draft Josh Morrissey if MacKinnon and Jones were off the board. This way they get a good young defensive prospect and some value for a high pick. This is obviously me just having fun speculating though. I still think the team makes the playoffs or just barely misses.

C'mon, you guys know if the Flyers finish last this year they'll somehow end up with the 4th pick or something. I know any of the 14 non playoff teams can win the #1 pick in the draft, but is there any more information than that about how the draft lottery works now? Can teams still only drop 1 position in the draft based on overall points?

Maybe never. If Brayden Schenn & Sean Couturier were untouchables last season, 3 bad games shouldn't change that. The Flyers are counting heavily on younger players to do heavy lifting. When you do that, you face ups and downs as they develop.

look at 2006-07. The Flyers expected Richards and Carter to step up and play like veterans. By and large they didn't meet expectations for that season. However the next year they did.

That said, even if this ends up being a non playoff season, I don't think a wholesale rebuild is in order. Augment the good young players that are on hand, don't trade them away in panic moves.
- Jsaquella

I agree i keep the youth but try to move Kimmo and briere to contender for picks and prospects....

Maybe never. If Brayden Schenn & Sean Couturier were untouchables last season, 3 bad games shouldn't change that. The Flyers are counting heavily on younger players to do heavy lifting. When you do that, you face ups and downs as they develop.

look at 2006-07. The Flyers expected Richards and Carter to step up and play like veterans. By and large they didn't meet expectations for that season. However the next year they did.

That said, even if this ends up being a non playoff season, I don't think a wholesale rebuild is in order. Augment the good young players that are on hand, don't trade them away in panic moves.
- Jsaquella

Agreed. Let's build for the future instead of going for broke, again, this year.

C'mon, you guys know if the Flyers finish last this year they'll somehow end up with the 4th pick or something. I know any of the 14 non playoff teams can win the #1 pick in the draft, but is there any more information than that about how the draft lottery works now? Can teams still only drop 1 position in the draft based on overall points?
- eayost

Nope. It's a weighted lottery. Team with the worst record gets the greatest odds of landing the top pick, but could end up at 14, too

Not sure if it's been posted but Brayden Schenn has a disciplinary hearing with Brendan Shanahan at 1:30 today.
- NickTheKid87

In person or on the phone?