Let's assume both Couturier and Hamilton max out their potential. While it's still harder to find a top-pairing D than a forward, it's not exactly like Selke Trophy caliber centers who also have Couturier's hands around the net are a dime a dozen.

Couturier is off to a slow start this season; though I thought he settled in during Jersey game after his rough first shift. Actually, I think that was one of the few positives from the NJ game. But people are pretty much down on everyone with the tough start.

Couturier's upside and typical defensive play level are exactly the same as they were all along. Three games doesn't change that.
- bmeltzer

couturier started to look like his old self at one point in that game, which was a relief!

In that the Flyers have no wins while the Jackets do?
- eayost

I was thinking more along the lines of the Blue Jackets never winning a game in the playoffs in the history of their franchise.

Has it worked for David Poile? He drafts a ton of great defensemen and develops them very well. He's been an NHL GM for decades.

He's had one team get to a Stanley Cup final in all that time, and it got swept.
- Jsaquella

his goalie ain't too shabby either

coocoo for cocoa puffs
- Don'tForgetTocchet

It is. I get that people are frustrated. But throwing in the towel after 3 games? Trading Couturier because he didn't have a good start?

This is what I mean with young guys-as soon as they have a bad game or bad stretch...people lose it.

That's fine and understandable. I would have been OK with Hamilton, too. I do agree with Bill on this particular case, though. A guy who could be a future Selke winner and be a 20 goal guy is just as rare as a good defenseman.

I'm more disappointed in trading the Carlson pick than picking Couturier over Hamilton
- Jsaquella

his goalie ain't too shabby either
- Don'tForgetTocchet

He had some good goalies for a lot of his time in Washington, too.

One of the big problems I see, is they keep getting old washed up guys. O'Donnel, Lilja, even Pronger at the end of his career... guys like Gervais and Foster(while I think he has a nice shot among other things, he gets beat up a lot) who have bounced around from team to team. Add to that Timonen getting older and beat up, Mez and Grossmann having multiple health issues... Coburn has been the only really healthy, solid guy who has a few more years to go. Schenn is still a work in progress...

They don't have their Suter, Weber, Karlsson, Yandle, etc... They need to do something to start getting young, franchise Dmen in. Whether it be in the draft, or through a trade. They need to stop focusing on these 35-39 year old guys, and look hard at some younger guys.

Now before anyone says anything, I am NOT saying being old is bad, or anything of the sort. I know the importance of veteran leadership, and experience... and I realize in the case of Pronger, he was still doing well (albeit slow) up until his injury.. But the problem arises when that is the basis of the core... then we end up with where we are now. Whoever isn't old and washed up, is hurt.. whoever isn't hurt, is under-performing... It's a cycle that needs to be broken some how, some way.

I also realize that Ed and Homer went after Suter and Weber this offseason... and I like their efforts... but it didn't work out.. so they need to keep trying in a smart, prudent manner. They need to stop settling for "well, we didn't get Weber, but maybe we can get Keith Jones back in a uniform?"...

Just my view on it..


Sidenote - I never.. ever.. want to see Subban in orange and black... ever. I wouldn't even deal Shelley for him straight up. The guy is cancer on and off the ice, he's never in position, he's a puck hog, etc. People need to learn to look deeper than stats) Again, just my opinion...
- WarriorHockey21

I think there is something to this.

When is the last time the Flyers had a 25 or younger legit top pairing stud on the backend?

Not a lot has gone right for the Flyers since the start of the NJD playoff series last season, that being said it's not like this team is the Columbus Blue Jackets.

If they don't make the playoffs this year it's not the end of the world, it happens to every team. By all indications it is a very deep draft, with a good draft, and some solid moves in FA, and possibly the trade market this team can be a contender as early as next year.
- PLindbergh31

Missing the playoffs isn't a savory thought, but between an amputated season and a youth movement on this team, I think 'not the end of the world' is dead accurate. If things stay sour, I still want to see guys like Giroux, Couturier, and the Schenns taking steps in their game and pushing. I'm not ready to write this off as a lost cause yet, but I'm preaching to the choir when I say this isn't the year for a rental-type trade.

I don't like losing, but the long term isn't threatened in my mind. Now, let's see about taking the Rags down a notch maybe?

I think there is something to this.

When is the last time the Flyers had a young 25 or younger legit top pairing stud on the backend?
- PLindbergh31

Never. Even on the Cup teams.

OMG, that lineup is atrocious.

Missing the playoffs isn't a savory thought, but between an amputated season and a youth movement on this team, I think 'not the end of the world' is dead accurate. If things stay sour, I still want to see guys like Giroux, Couturier, and the Schenns taking steps in their game and pushing. I'm not ready to write this off as a lost cause yet, but I'm preaching to the choir when I say this isn't the year for a rental-type trade.

I don't like losing, but the long term isn't threatened in my mind. Now, let's see about taking the Rags down a notch maybe?
- BulliesPhan87

It's not a disaster. The circumstances certainly make it more palatable than if they had landed Suter or Weber. I mean, they did lose talent, despite their best efforts to bring in top players on defense and at forward(they did bid on Parise)

I expected a finish between 5-8 before the season, and I expect roughly the same now. They have to bear down, clean up the simple mistakes and not get discouraged when they have a set back.

In that the Flyers have no wins while the Jackets do?
- eayost

More like in that we have more than one season over .500

One of the big problems I see, is they keep getting old washed up guys. O'Donnel, Lilja, even Pronger at the end of his career... guys like Gervais and Foster(while I think he has a nice shot among other things, he gets beat up a lot) who have bounced around from team to team. Add to that Timonen getting older and beat up, Mez and Grossmann having multiple health issues... Coburn has been the only really healthy, solid guy who has a few more years to go. Schenn is still a work in progress...

They don't have their Suter, Weber, Karlsson, Yandle, etc... They need to do something to start getting young, franchise Dmen in. Whether it be in the draft, or through a trade. They need to stop focusing on these 35-39 year old guys, and look hard at some younger guys.

Now before anyone says anything, I am NOT saying being old is bad, or anything of the sort. I know the importance of veteran leadership, and experience... and I realize in the case of Pronger, he was still doing well (albeit slow) up until his injury.. But the problem arises when that is the basis of the core... then we end up with where we are now. Whoever isn't old and washed up, is hurt.. whoever isn't hurt, is under-performing... It's a cycle that needs to be broken some how, some way.

I also realize that Ed and Homer went after Suter and Weber this offseason... and I like their efforts... but it didn't work out.. so they need to keep trying in a smart, prudent manner. They need to stop settling for "well, we didn't get Weber, but maybe we can get Keith Jones back in a uniform?"...

Just my view on it..
- WarriorHockey21

A big problem has been the top defensemen in free agency haven't wanted to come here. Hamhius, Bouwmeester, Suter all rejected the Flyers advances. Even Justin Schultz said thanks but no thanks. If free agents don't want to come here, you either have to draft or trade for defensemen. Sadly, great defensemen are not available in their prime and without a giant overpayment like Schenn and Couturier ++++. Look at Pronger deal which was for a 35 year old defensmen with 1yr on his contract. So you have to do in the draft and that takes time and development. And look at all the fans complaining about L Schenn already when he is young defensemen finding his way in the league. That's what you get with young defensemen. To get the guys who don't take many years to get it like Doughty and Pieterangelo, you have to stink bad because they are taken of the very top of the draft.

It's not a disaster. The circumstances certainly make it more palatable than if they had landed Suter or Weber. I mean, they did lose talent, despite their best efforts to bring in top players on defense and at forward(they did bid on Parise)

I expected a finish between 5-8 before the season, and I expect roughly the same now. They have to bear down, clean up the simple mistakes and not get discouraged when they have a set back.
- Jsaquella

A 5-8 finish before the season was realistic, staring at an 0-4 start, coupled with the loss of their leading goal scorer for who knows how long, those expectations should be tempered imo.

That's fine and understandable. I would have been OK with Hamilton, too. I do agree with Bill on this particular case, though. A guy who could be a future Selke winner and be a 20 goal guy is just as rare as a good defenseman.

I'm more disappointed in trading the Carlson pick than picking Couturier over Hamilton
- Jsaquella

Carlson was def a lost opp.

Never. Even on the Cup teams.
- Jsaquella

That has to change in today's NHL. If you look at all the Cup winners over the last 15 years majority if not all had that lockdown 30 minute a night monster on the blueline.

Different styles of player, whether is be Lidstrom, Chara, Stevens, Niedermayer, Pronger etc... Bottom line is you need to have an all world player as part of your defense core to win.

but that's just it- i pointed these issues out beforehand
- isaiah520

2 years ago, the talk was that the Flyers had the best Defense in the League. You just want the Flyers to draft a defenseman.

A 5-8 finish before the season was realistic, staring at an 0-4 start, coupled with the loss of their leading goal scorer for who knows how long, those expectations should be tempered imo.
- PLindbergh31

Well, we don't know how long Hartnell will be out. Obviously it's not looking good, but I also don't think they are as bad as they've played in the first 3 games. I expect the execution to improve and I expect guys to step up, or the GM to make moves.

My hope on that last point is avoiding knee jerk moves that hurt long term. Let's face it, the difference between 0-3 and 0-4 is one game.

I agree, so why the need for 3 more young centers?
- vejim

Because players like Briere get old and retire.

It's not a disaster. The circumstances certainly make it more palatable than if they had landed Suter or Weber. I mean, they did lose talent, despite their best efforts to bring in top players on defense and at forward(they did bid on Parise)

I expected a finish between 5-8 before the season, and I expect roughly the same now. They have to bear down, clean up the simple mistakes and not get discouraged when they have a set back.
- Jsaquella

Amen, sir. Understandably, the expectations are high for this team. They had a big playoffs win last year over the anointed ones, we've got Giroux growing into a talent worthy of league-wide spotlight and donning the C, and in general the Flyers play to win every season. But we're also only on year two (well, season 1.5 thanks to the lockout) of a youth movement. We whiffed on the transactions this summer, but that doesn't mean this team is done building. I expect them to land somewhere in that 5-8 seed mix, but either way we need to install a shield flap over the panic button.

when there a chronic issues like on D and in goal, i'd prefer a new approach...like the one that was promised after clarke resigned
- isaiah520

Just about every team has holes, and needs ot suppliment their team through other means then drafting.

That has to change in today's NHL. If you look at all the Cup winners over the last 15 years majority if not all had that lockdown 30 minute a night monster on the blueline.

Different styles of player, whether is be Lidstrom, Chara, Stevens, Niedermayer, Pronger etc... Bottom line is you need to have an all world player as part of your defense core to win.
- PLindbergh31

Doesn't have to be under 25 though. The Flyers can certainly try to trade for one, or land one in free agency. They can also try to draft one, but of those you named only Lidstrom and Niedermayer didn't go through years of growing pains.

get your crack staff on the case
- isaiah520

You're the guy talking about track records.

Amen, sir. Understandably, the expectations are high for this team. They had a big playoffs win last year over the anointed ones, we've got Giroux growing into a talent worthy of league-wide spotlight and donning the C, and in general the Flyers play to win every season. But we're also only on year two (well, season 1.5 thanks to the lockout) of a youth movement. We whiffed on the transactions this summer, but that doesn't mean this team is done building. I expect them to land somewhere in that 5-8 seed mix, but either way we need to install a shield flap over the panic button.
- BulliesPhan87

Agreed...especially on that last point.

Well, we don't know how long Hartnell will be out. Obviously it's not looking good, but I also don't think they are as bad as they've played in the first 3 games. I expect the execution to improve and I expect guys to step up, or the GM to make moves.

My hope on that last point is avoiding knee jerk moves that hurt long term. Let's face it, the difference between 0-3 and 0-4 is one game.
- Jsaquella

0-4 in a 48 game schedule is digging a significant hole. They will get Schenn and maybe Briere back for the weekend that will help.

Any trades made should be for the future, if a guy can be had that will help both present and future great, throwing draft picks at older guys on the last year of their deals is fools gold.