Since the Cap is artificially at 70.3M this year. Cap Geek is using full Season values. So you would have to use the players full Season salary to be comparing apples to apples. But Montreal does have over 6M in Cap space.
- MJL

How much cap space do we have?

5M per for a top pair dman is not an overpayment. whether you like him or not he is held in that high of a regard. he's a dynamic, game changing plyr who is improving. as he matures, he has the potential of being a top 10 dman leaguewide.
- isaiah520

I think 5M would be a fair for Subban right now. You are overpaying somewhat at the beginning of the contract, and in theory getting a bargain on the backend of the deal. Basically the same thing Holmgren was hoping with JVR.

Five years, $25M.
- bmeltzer

Thanks bill.

I bet there isn't because if so, more players would sign them. This is assuming they're good offer sheets too but teams would be wasting their time doing it to begin with. Also when the flyers made one to weber a big deal was made last summer about how taboo it was. Furthermore offer sheets give leverage to the player in a negotiation which is also why it's considered taboo.
- JoeRussomanno

Hey i agree with what you're saying.. i just think it happens a ton..

Five years, $25M.
- bmeltzer

That's what I was thinking too. If they are really at $5 million for two years, we can give the 5 @ $25 million offer.

It isn't outrageus, fills a need, and is legit (similar to Benn), It would probably be our 1st round pick I think.

Then if Montreal matches, congrats, they have a great player. We lose nothing.

How much cap space do we have?
- Flyersgod

Right now, on paper, very little. But the Flyers can place players on LTIR to gain Cap space if necessary.

That's what I was thinking too. If they are really at $5 million for two years, we can give the 5 @ $25 million offer.

It isn't outrageus, fills a need, and is legit (similar to Benn), It would probably be our 1st round pick I think.

Then if Montreal matches, congrats, they have a great player.
- DrMidnite

Over $3,364,391 to $5,046,585 – 1st round pick, 3rd

Right now, on paper, very little. But the Flyers can place players on LTIR to gain Cap space if necessary.
- MJL

But if you use player salary instead of cap hit doesn't that help us?

Over $3,364,391 to $5,046,585 – 1st round pick, 3rd
- Flyersgod

Thanks, I was being lazy.

The longer PK sits the more desperate Montreal will become, they arent playing bad, but he is a big asset or a key to other assets for the team, either way they will want this drama over sooner rather than later.

One way or another either montreal breaks and signs/trades (including any idea of an offer sheet) or PK breaks and signs (either with Montreal or Offer sheet)...and it will happen sooner rather than later.

lets remember though you dont want to price up Subban with the idea of having to resign G and other players who make a difference on the roster.

5M per for a top pair dman is not an overpayment. whether you like him or not he is held in that high of a regard. he's a dynamic, game changing plyr who is improving. as he matures, he has the potential of being a top 10 dman leaguewide.
- isaiah520

When you look at what kimmo (a top pair dman, at least when he was signed) gets then at meszaros (a legitimate 3-4 guy who can play up when need be) 5 mill for Subban makes sense.

But if you use player salary instead of cap hit doesn't that help us?
- Flyersgod

No such thing.

The longer Subban remains unsigned, the more receptive Montreal should be to a trade. I would wait a couple more weeks and then offer Read, Laughton, Gustafsson a 1st in 2013 and a 2nd in 2014.

It sounds like a lot, but I look at it this way: you keep Coots and Schenn and you are giving up a 2nd line winger, a young center who will most likely end up as a quality shut down 3rd line center, a young defenseman who probably will never be more than a #5 dman who plays on the 2nd pp unit, a hopefully late 1st and a 2nd; seems a pretty fair price for a 23 year old defenseman with excellent mobility and skills and the potential to be your number one Dman.

Comments??
- BiggE

A bit rich if you ask me. Read plus Gus and a 1st would be it for me. And that probably wouldn't fly.

I think thats vastly over rating pk.
- twotoekenn

you're paying more up front because 1) you are projecting a natural course of development given what he's shown so far 2) we have almost no prospects of acquiring this level of dman w/o giving up significant assets due to an org fail.

I think 5M would be a fair for Subban right now. You are overpaying somewhat at the beginning of the contract, and in theory getting a bargain on the backend of the deal. Basically the same thing Holmgren was hoping with JVR.
- PLindbergh31

when he evens out his game, he'll be one of the better ones

When you look at what kimmo (a top pair dman, at least when he was signed) gets then at meszaros (a legitimate 3-4 guy who can play up when need be) 5 mill for Subban makes sense.
- JoeRussomanno

I don't think 5M is awful, but it's a pretty extreme overpayment now. It very well might not be in a few years. So I wouldn't be upset at it. But I don't see the draft pick compensation as being enough for Montreal to pass on matching.

Since the Cap is artificially at 70.3M this year. Cap Geek is using full Season values. So you would have to use the players full Season salary to be comparing apples to apples. But Montreal does have over 6M in Cap space.
- MJL

Maybe i misunderstood you?

The longer PK sits the more desperate Montreal will become, they arent playing bad, but he is a big asset or a key to other assets for the team, either way they will want this drama over sooner rather than later.

One way or another either montreal breaks and signs/trades (including any idea of an offer sheet) or PK breaks and signs (either with Montreal or Offer sheet)...and it will happen sooner rather than later.

lets remember though you dont want to price up Subban with the idea of having to resign G and other players who make a difference on the roster.
- Pyzik

I think in the end Montreal gets Subban signed. I don't think they will trade him for pennies on the dollar. Trading him for a bad return would be worse than overpaying him.

you're paying more up front because 1) you are projecting a natural course of development given what he's shown so far 2) we have almost no prospects of acquiring this level of dman w/o giving up significant assets due to an org fail.
- isaiah520

It would have to be at least a 5 year deal, if not 7, to make sense.

I think in the end Montreal gets Subban signed. I don't think they will trade him for pennies on the dollar. Trading him for a bad return would be worse than overpaying him.
- PLindbergh31

I agree. And losing him for the draft pick compensation of a 5M Offer Sheet would be just as bad.

when he evens out his game, he'll be one of the better ones
- isaiah520

Agreed. I think his biggest concern a team would have with him right now is his maturity. He does, and says some foolish things. With experience you would think that changes. All of the physical tools are there right now.

I think in the end Montreal gets Subban signed. I don't think they will trade him for pennies on the dollar. Trading him for a bad return would be worse than overpaying him.
- PLindbergh31

I think Subban really wants to stay in Montreal.

Maybe i misunderstood you?
- Flyersgod

I mistyped there. I should have said full Season Cap hit.

I mistyped there. I should have said full Season Cap hit.
- MJL

damn.. i even used the calculator to add up every players salary... haha

It would have to be at least a 5 year deal, if not 7, to make sense.
- MJL

Why not go 7 at 35? Makes it all that more unlikely they match.