Ok but maybe the rest of us would like to hear what you meant. I'm not trying to be a Richard but I don't get how the team is building for mediocrity as you say. Maybe you have an observation I don't and perhaps if you explain it ill see where you're coming from, nothing more nothing less.
- JoeRussomanno

Ahhh. A few years ago the team made a huge leap with the sudden emergence of Richards and Carter.

Perhaps they were thinking thats what would happen with Schenn/Coots. It has not. Not to say it wouldnt happen, but you are seeing the effects imo. On offense in particular you have Giroux and Briere who are currently your real offensive threats. After that who is there? No real finishers, or playmakers...

I just think its a weird mix up front. If the team believes Schenn and Coots can be those big name guys to help lead the offense then so be it. As of right now Coots has shown solid defensive play but limited offensive power. Schenn is more frustrating. You have a bunch of guys that are pretty good at everything but dont really excel in one area for the most part.

I think they have the pieces, just need to get a better mix. Schenn, Voracek, Fedotenko and Knuble would be on the out. Keep Coots as a 3rd line center and dont force him into an offensive role.

On the back end... Well I think Kimmo's age is really showing. They need star power there, not just a guy who can move the puck like Carle. An established guy or someone with that potential.

In the end, I dont think this is a quick fix to get them to a cup, but they do have some good pieces.

@johnboruk
@JohnBorukCSN: Of all people, Bryz was motioning to his teammates to calm down out there after a series of turnovers. Oh, how things have changed.

Giroux is playing badly. Not really making excuses, but who did he mainly play with last year. Also who does he play with now?
- flyer_nutter

Can't argue the lineup is different, but he's supposed to be one of the best players on the ice every single night, at least in effort if not in results, and so far he's way off. And changing his line around shouldn't impact his ability to make a pass or cause him to make really bad turnovers.

It's not just that he's not scoring or really leading in any demonstrable way...he's playing small, invisible, like a 3rd or 4th liner.

We've had a big enough sampling of games so far, would anybody place 2013 Giroux in the top 5 forwards in the league? Top 10?

Maybe he's hurt. Maybe he's not clicking with any line. Maybe it's something else. Maybe, maybe, maybe. Whatever it is, I hope he heals and/or snaps out of it soon.

And by no means do I put it all on Giroux. But he's where I expect the fire to come from, the heart, the blue collar work ethic. And it's not there. I want the Giroux that laid out Crosby, because that guy knew how to motivate a team.

Ahhh. A few years ago the team made a huge leap with the sudden emergence of Richards and Carter.

Perhaps they were thinking thats what would happen with Schenn/Coots. It has not. Not to say it wouldnt happen, but you are seeing the effects imo. On offense in particular you have Giroux and Briere who are currently your real offensive threats. After that who is there? No real finishers, or playmakers...

I just think its a weird mix up front. If the team believes Schenn and Coots can be those big name guys to help lead the offense then so be it. As of right now Coots has shown solid defensive play but limited offensive power. Schenn is more frustrating. You have a bunch of guys that are pretty good at everything but dont really excel in one area for the most part.

I think they have the pieces, just need to get a better mix. Schenn, Voracek, Fedotenko and Knuble would be on the out. Keep Coots as a 3rd line center and dont force him into an offensive role.

On the back end... Well I think Kimmo's age is really showing. They need star power there, not just a guy who can move the puck like Carle. An established guy or someone with that potential.

In the end, I dont think this is a quick fix to get them to a cup, but they do have some good pieces.
- flyer_nutter

Meh, the 2nd year of Carter and Richards' careers was the worst season in the history of the franchise. The Flyers seem to think or at least hope at times that the young guys will just steadily improve. They tend to build their teams around them, or at least it seems that way. And when that doesn't happen, poop hits the fan. Let's hope this year is not as bad as "that" year.

@johnboruk
@JohnBorukCSN: Of all people, Bryz was motioning to his teammates to calm down out there after a series of turnovers. Oh, how things have changed.


- JoeRussomanno

Bryz has been consistently good so far this season, solid and calm. I'm good with our goalie.

@johnboruk
@JohnBorukCSN: Of all people, Bryz was motioning to his teammates to calm down out there after a series of turnovers. Oh, how things have changed.


- JoeRussomanno

I'll say this. I would be one for an approach to get young talent on the back end, and let the team grow that along with Giroux and Coots.

The catch with all of that is Bryzgalov is not getting any younger.Thats what I mean by a weird combination.

Meh, the 2nd year of Carter and Richards' careers was the worst season in the history of the franchise. The Flyers seem to think or at least hope at times that the young guys will just steadily improve. They tend to build their teams around them, or at least it seems that way. And when that doesn't happen, poop hits the fan. Let's hope this year is not as bad as "that" year.
- feelingkettle

Thats my thing. This year for me purely was about one thing. Evaluating the young kids and seeing who to build around.

As of right now I am in the same spot as last season. Giroux, and Coots. They need another big game up front, and more star power on the back end. Or a guy with that potential.

Edit: Everything else to me imo is a moot point. Without those two things you wont see a cup, at least in my head haha. Thats what I meant by so many complimentary pieces.

Ahhh. A few years ago the team made a huge leap with the sudden emergence of Richards and Carter.

Perhaps they were thinking thats what would happen with Schenn/Coots. It has not. Not to say it wouldnt happen, but you are seeing the effects imo. On offense in particular you have Giroux and Briere who are currently your real offensive threats. After that who is there? No real finishers, or playmakers...

I just think its a weird mix up front. If the team believes Schenn and Coots can be those big name guys to help lead the offense then so be it. As of right now Coots has shown solid defensive play but limited offensive power. Schenn is more frustrating. You have a bunch of guys that are pretty good at everything but dont really excel in one area for the most part.

I think they have the pieces, just need to get a better mix. Schenn, Voracek, Fedotenko and Knuble would be on the out. Keep Coots as a 3rd line center and dont force him into an offensive role.


- flyer_nutter

And in what Seasons of their careers did Mike Richards and Jeff Carter breakout offensively? Mike Richards had 32 and 34 points his first two Seasons. To state that B Schenn should be on the outs is extremely pre mature and flat out just plain ludicrous. He's not playing well. But it is no where near to the point of giving up on him. Fedetnko and Knuble are veteran role players that don't figure in the long term plans of the team. So they're not an issue

Ahhh. A few years ago the team made a huge leap with the sudden emergence of Richards and Carter.

Perhaps they were thinking thats what would happen with Schenn/Coots. It has not. Not to say it wouldnt happen, but you are seeing the effects imo. On offense in particular you have Giroux and Briere who are currently your real offensive threats. After that who is there? No real finishers, or playmakers...

I just think its a weird mix up front. If the team believes Schenn and Coots can be those big name guys to help lead the offense then so be it. As of right now Coots has shown solid defensive play but limited offensive power. Schenn is more frustrating. You have a bunch of guys that are pretty good at everything but dont really excel in one area for the most part.

I think they have the pieces, just need to get a better mix. Schenn, Voracek, Fedotenko and Knuble would be on the out. Keep Coots as a 3rd line center and dont force him into an offensive role.

On the back end... Well I think Kimmo's age is really showing. They need star power there, not just a guy who can move the puck like Carle. An established guy or someone with that potential.

In the end, I dont think this is a quick fix to get them to a cup, but they do have some good pieces.
- flyer_nutter

I think you're spot on with the defense and finding that puck mover but not quite carle type.

I don't fully understand or agree with your offensive analysis. Giroux is gonna need a supporting cast and briere is a guy who's career is winding down. The youth of schenn and coot allow for a transition while guys like Hartnell and briere age and Giroux grows into his role. Giroux is still young but his play should be way more concerning because he really is the guy the flyers were banking on when Ritchie and carter left.

How would this look for next year?

Hartnell Giroux Perry
Clowe Briere Schenn
Simmonds Couterier Read
Cleary Talbot Rinaldo

Coburn Schenn
Ference Ekman-Larsson
Grossman-Mezzy

Bryz

How would this look for next year?

Hartnell Giroux Perry
Clowe Briere Schenn
Simmonds Couterier Read
Cleary Talbot Rinaldo

Coburn Schenn
Ference Ekman-Larsson
Grossman-Mezzy

Bryz
- Flyers1218

I think it's too early in the current Season to be playing Fantasy Hockey.

Meh, the 2nd year of Carter and Richards' careers was the worst season in the history of the franchise. The Flyers seem to think or at least hope at times that the young guys will just steadily improve. They tend to build their teams around them, or at least it seems that way. And when that doesn't happen, poop hits the fan. Let's hope this year is not as bad as "that" year.
- feelingkettle

Going by that its kinda safe to say this year will probably be a wash too, almost being the keyword.

2 days off win 4 of the next 5 and get back to .500. Way too early to panic.

I think you're spot on with the defense and finding that puck mover but not quite carle type.

I don't fully understand or agree with your offensive analysis. Giroux is gonna need a supporting cast and briere is a guy who's career is winding down. The youth of schenn and coot allow for a transition while guys like Hartnell and briere age and Giroux grows into his role. Giroux is still young but his play should be way more concerning because he really is the guy the flyers were banking on when Ritchie and carter left.
- JoeRussomanno

Is Giroux really ready to lead a team on his own. Or an offensive core? I think he needs more help. Up front you really only have Giroux and Briere right now initiating plays.

I dont think its fair to expect that from Coots. I think he will turn out to be that guy you have on the 2nd/3rd line for years that does his thing defensively and earns Selke nominations.

I am starting to have doubts about Brayden Schenn. Have had for a while. Its early but I wouldnt mark him anywhere close to untouchable in terms of trading him. Voracek as well was supposed to be a guy that helps lead that offense. He has the rest of the season to show he can do so.

And in what Seasons of their careers did Mike Richards and Jeff Carter breakout offensively? Mike Richards had 32 and 34 points his first two Seasons. To state that B Schenn should be on the outs is extremely pre mature and flat out just plain ludicrous. He's not playing well. But it is no where near to the point of giving up on him. Fedetnko and Knuble are veteran role players that don't figure in the long term plans of the team. So they're not an issue
- MJL

Everyone on the team matters.

A guy like Lappy was a 4th liner. Even the ditch diggers, every player matters.

Is Giroux really ready to lead a team on his own. Or an offensive core? I think he needs more help. Up front you really only have Giroux and Briere right now initiating plays.

I dont think its fair to expect that from Coots. I think he will turn out to be that guy you have on the 2nd/3rd line for years that does his thing defensively and earns Selke nominations.

I am starting to have doubts about Brayden Schenn. Have had for a while. Its early but I wouldnt mark him anywhere close to untouchable in terms of trading him. Voracek as well was supposed to be a guy that helps lead that offense. He has the rest of the season to show he can do so.
- flyer_nutter

You have Simmons and Hartnell is hurt. He's a legitimate 25-30 goal a year guy. That's four total how many more do you want? Coots and schenn are really a bonus but should grow into the other roles as the players in them age.

Everyone on the team matters.

A guy like Lappy was a 4th liner. Even the ditch diggers, every player matters.
- flyer_nutter

Of course every player matters. But when you're looking at a long term plan of building a team, and who to build around. I don't see how Fedetenko and Knuble come into the conversation. Both are on one year deals. Fedetenko is 34 and Knuble is 40.

2 days off win 4 of the next 5 and get back to .500. Way too early to panic.
- jstross

Not panicking by any means.

I think its fair to say this team needs changes, and not just in the lower ranks. Not crazy drastic like a firesale, but they do need changes.

They are where they are for a reason.

Not panicking by any means.

I think its fair to say this team needs changes, and not just in the lower ranks. Not crazy drastic like a firesale, but they do need changes.

They are where they are for a reason.
- flyer_nutter

Even if this team was 7-0 right now, they know they need to make changes. There isn't anyone who thought before the Season or now, that this team was a finished product. Pretty much everyone knows that there is a big hole that needs to be filled on the defense.

You have Simmons and Hartnell is hurt. He's a legitimate 25-30 goal a year guy. That's four total how many more do you want? Coots and schenn are really a bonus but should grow into the other roles as the players in them age.
- JoeRussomanno

Is simmonds going to be a guy that reall consistently leads a play? Or will his goals come from guys like Giroux.

Same goes for Hartnell.

To me they need more star power up front. I think its unfair to expect that from Coots, he seems like a guy who will earn Selke nominations and chip in some offense occasionally.

Guess Im just not really a believe in Brayden Schenn. Or Voracek. Those two would be my main assets when looking at talent for the D.

I'm sad to announce the passing of Matt Carle as our former whipping boy. He will be replaced by 21 year old forward, Brayden schenn. May Matt forever smile upon us in the all forgiving and non caring market known as Tampa Bay. His spirit will be with, successor Brayden Schenn who is condemned to wallow in vitriolic criticism and hatred left vacant by Matt. In Clarkie's name Amen.

As bad as they played it was a 2-1 game. Briere
in particular had a couple of chances to tie it up. So if Bryz keeps it up, they will at least have a chance in a lot of games.
Very encouraged by Bryz. And Briere is closer to having his game back.
Giroux is not going to suck all year.
Getting Mez and Hartnell back will help.
Don't give up the ship yet.

Throwing in the towel on 21 yr olds without a full season if NHL hockey makes no sense.

I got a feeling a couple of changes might happen in the next day or two.

Seems to be a bad mix in the forward group.

Is simmonds going to be a guy that reall consistently leads a play? Or will his goals come from guys like Giroux.

Same goes for Hartnell.

To me they need more star power up front. I think its unfair to expect that from Coots, he seems like a guy who will earn Selke nominations and chip in some offense occasionally.

Guess Im just not really a believe in Brayden Schenn. Or Voracek. Those two would be my main assets when looking at talent for the D.
- flyer_nutter

Are you saying they need a set up guy or people who can score?

I'm sad to announce the passing of Matt Carle as our former whipping boy. He will be replaced by 21 year old forward, Brayden schenn. May Matt forever smile upon us in the all forgiving and non caring market known as Tampa Bay. His spirit will be with, successor Brayden Schenn who is condemned to wallow in vitriolic criticism and hatred left vacant by Matt. In Clarkie's name Amen.
- JoeRussomanno

Exactly the reason to not waste my time. There is really a strong Nodl Syndrome of overhyping certain players just because they play for your favourite team.

I'm sure Nodl Syndrome could be explained by dark side.