Without the work ethic to succeed this team will always be a pretender.

Agree or not, work ethics are a huge issue with this team. Hugging them and telling them its ok doesn't work on 10 year olds, let alone grown adults.
- Flyersgod

Do you argue like this in real life? Or have all your friends abandoned you like I am sure they have.

Do you play hockey? I'm not sure of that either.

Kinda like when Kurt Russel made Team USA skate again and again after the game against Sweden...
- Atomic Wedgie

As an example. Yes.

I can't believe we become such a bunch of sissies in this country that we're against bag skating.

I guarantee if Snider watched the game in TB, he was embarrassed to be the owner of the team. The effort and intensity in that game was a disgrace. You see guys in beer leagues give more effort.
- PLindbergh31

Funny thing is I ran into Mr.Snider at work the other day. One of the guys I work with was like big win against Florida last night, and Ed without a moments hesitation said that the team was ready to roll and it was all going to start with a big win in Tampa...needless to say the next time he comes in the store I doubt he is going to be in such a good mood

Do you argue like this in real life? Or have all your friends abandoned you like I am sure they have.

Do you play hockey? I'm not sure of that either.
- MBFlyerfan

Ah nice.. the good ol' personal attack.

I'm as big of a Carle critic as anyone when it came to his positioning and intensity. But you can't argue the guy had a pair of skates on him, and offensive prowess. While I don't think he would "solve" the issues now, I think he could definitely help... especially with how beat up the D is currently.
- WarriorHockey21

Would the Flyers have any interest in Liles?

He's a pretty good puck mover. His cap hit isn't great, but it isn't appalling.

'cuz you have 14 young centres, and we need one.

Bad.

It's not like a few guys would be disheartened by a bag skate. A lot of them may be. If they need to be bag skated to wake them up, then we have much larger problems.
- NickTheKid87

Then, in my opinion, we have much larger problems.

I'm not trying to come off as a Richard... just throwing my thoughts out as to one way to go about this problem...

Would the Flyers have any interest in Liles?

He's a pretty good puck mover. His cap hit isn't great, but it isn't appalling.

'cuz you have 14 young centres, and we need one.

Bad.
- Atomic Wedgie

Always thought Liles was pretty good with the Avs.... Good ol' 'Merican player and all.

How has he looked in TO? Didn't he fight injuries for a bit?

Despite Matt Carle's deficiencies in his own zone, he could move the puck out and help the forwards:



Matt Carle.



Matt Carle.
- KGBflyers10

Great Vids, i mentioned both these plays a few days ago..he was apart of so many great plays, and he had the flyers only goal in Game 82 against the rags which got us into the playoff on a rebound that he roofed backhand top chedda WOOT WOOT

Would the Flyers have any interest in Liles?

He's a pretty good puck mover. His cap hit isn't great, but it isn't appalling.

'cuz you have 14 young centres, and we need one.

Bad.
- Atomic Wedgie

Would have to be more then Liles for one of our young centers imo...

Do you argue like this in real life? Or have all your friends abandoned you like I am sure they have.

Do you play hockey? I'm not sure of that either.
- MBFlyerfan

You obviously haven't if you think work ethic has nothing to do with it.

These guys are NHL players, getting paid millions a year to do a job. He was perfectly warranted in saying they shouldn't be coddled and "hugged"... If I don't do my job at work, nobody tells me it's ok.. I don't keep making millions a year.. No, I lose my job. These guys need to start doing the jobs their paid to do, and have some work ethic...

Great Vids, i mentioned both these plays a few days ago..he was apart of so many great plays, and he had the flyers only goal in Game 82 against the rags which got us into the playoff on a rebound that he roofed backhand top chedda WOOT WOOT
- Flyers4Life88

Props for having Cousin Skeeter as your avatar.

Kinda like when Kurt Russel made Team USA skate again and again after the game against Sweden...
- Atomic Wedgie

You obviously haven't if you think work ethic has nothing to do with it.

These guys are NHL players, getting paid millions a year to do a job. He was perfectly warranted in saying they shouldn't be coddled and "hugged"... If I don't do my job at work, nobody tells me it's ok.. I don't keep making millions a year.. No, I lose my job. These guys need to start doing the jobs their paid to do, and have some work ethic, and do their jobs.
- WarriorHockey21

Its not like we're saying take them out to the shed and put them down.

Its a bag skate for crying out loud. Its not the end of the world. Every hockey player has done them, and every hockey player dreads them. Well maybe all but a few.. i could see Jagr enjoying them..

We're 2-5 with almost no room for error for the rest of the year.

If its not the coaches fault, and its not the GM's fault, then its the players fault.

When you have an employee show up to work and half ass it all day you punish them. Make them stay late etc...

This is a business... we need to stop punishing the coaches and Gm and start punishing the players. They are the ones who have to play the game.
- Flyersgod

I would also like to point out that positive reinforcement is more effective than negative reinforcement (which isn't necessarily punishment).

As an example. Yes.

I can't believe we become such a bunch of sissies in this country that we're against bag skating.
- Flyersgod

I don't think the problem with the bag skate has anything to do with Oprah Winfrey, sharing feelings and hugs.

It's the compressed schedule.

Although looking at the schedule, the Flyers don't have a game until Friday, so today would be a pretty good day to do it...

You obviously haven't if you think work ethic has nothing to do with it.

These guys are NHL players, getting paid millions a year to do a job. He was perfectly warranted in saying they shouldn't be coddled and "hugged"... If I don't do my job at work, nobody tells me it's ok.. I don't keep making millions a year.. No, I lose my job. These guys need to start doing the jobs their paid to do, and have some work ethic...
- WarriorHockey21

He didn't come close to saying work ethic has nothing to do with it. Using practice time effectively, to work out real issues, instead of putting them through an asinine bag skate. Isn't coddling them or offering them a hug.

Then, in my opinion, we have much larger problems.

I'm not trying to come off as a Richard... just throwing my thoughts out as to one way to go about this problem...
- Flyersgod

I think the team just needs to relax, not have stress added. They need to just start playing their game. Start by simplifying each players' game.

Kinda like when Kurt Russel made Team USA skate again and again after the game against Sweden...
- Atomic Wedgie

If you're going to insult somebody at least do it correctly...it was against Norway, not Sweden!

Its not like we're saying take them out to the shed and put them down.

Its a bag skate for crying out loud. Its not the end of the world. Every hockey player has done them, and every hockey player dreads them. Well maybe all but a few.. i could see Jagr enjoying them..
- Flyersgod

Whats the point though?

Is a bag skate more important than going over PP and PK adjustments. Is it more important than working on the breakout and rush?

I guarantee if Snider watched the game in TB, he was embarrassed to be the owner of the team. The effort and intensity in that game was a disgrace. You see guys in beer leagues give more effort.
- PLindbergh31

Did you see the video of his quote from the writers dinner? He's a very unhappy owner right now.

I would also like to point out that positive reinforcement is more effective than negative reinforcement (which isn't necessarily punishment).
- NickTheKid87

Says the guy who doesnt believe in gender roles. Hippie

Always thought Liles was pretty good with the Avs.... Good ol' 'Merican player and all.

How has he looked in TO? Didn't he fight injuries for a bit?
- johndewar

He looked fantastic to start last year - to be honest, I didn't really know much about him when he arrived, because I don't watch a lot of western conference games.

So I was pleasantly surprised. His speed was great - he had the ability to get back into position quickly.

And then his brain got scrambled - out with a concussion. He wasn't the same guy when he came back.

Keep your fingers crossed for this year - still too early to tell, but he hasn't looked bad.

Did you see the video of his quote from the writers dinner? He's a very unhappy owner right now.
- mayorofangrytown

I did see it. I'm worried he's going to do something he may regret in the next few days.

I would also like to point out that positive reinforcement is more effective than negative reinforcement (which isn't necessarily punishment).
- NickTheKid87

There isn't much at this point that could be reinforced positively though imo...

Nick i appreciate the debate. I understand your side/opinion.

1) Certainly not a franchise defenseman, agreed.

2) Not sure what you mean by "extremely low intensity -learned from Timonen." Timonen may project calm and lack of hurry (as did Eric Desjardins) but that's actually a positive thing. And Timonen is actually ULTRA intense when it comes to being a competitor and brutally honest about himself and the team. No one on that entire locker room, including Giroux, hates to lose more than Timonen does. Also, players don't learn their demeanor from other players. They are how they are. Carle isn't a physical player and he's not a vocal guy but I never thought for one moment that he was a guy who was nonchalant.

3) Defensively passable... Agreed. Carle isn't a shutdown guy but he doesn't kill you in terms of positional play.

4) Offensively-biased: He's not Steve Duchesne out there, worried only about rushing the puck and pinching at every opportunity. He does slant toward being more offensive-minded than defensive-minded, but you yourself listed defensively passable as one of his attributes. And that's all he needs to be.

5) Turnover machine: That is not true. Statistically he turns the puck over about as much as most defensemen around the league who handle the puck as often as he does and play comparable minutes. The problem is that his mistakes often tend to be the glaring kind that result immediately in goals. But in terms of volume of giveaways/forced turnovers, he's about normal for a guy below the elite class of defensemen but still a top 4. It's just that when a player is on your team, you notice mistakes more than you do if he plays for someone else.

6) No slapshot, weak wrist shot: Very true.
- bmeltzer

I definitely see what you mean about the playing style/nature of both Timonen and Carle, but what I meant more with regard to their low intensity is that they tend to slow the play down in a negative sense (Timonen waiting all day behind his net on the pp). And both players just set the bar for physicality or lack thereof, so much so that I would prefer their influence be left off the team.

I have all the respect in the world for Kimmo and his warrior characteristics and leadership, but he just doesn't seem to have a punishing sense of urgency, especially for a power player quarterback. And the same can be said for Matt Carle. I just don't get the sense that either of those players will stop at nothing to pound in a goal, that's what I mean when I use the word "intensity."

I just really love the change in dimension that Luke Schenn brings to this team. So far he's proven himself to be more worthy of the minutes that we gave Carle when he was here, and I'm excited to see what the future brings for him.