I was actually looking at some of the defensive units of teams on CapGeek and the Flyers actually don't have it all that bad.
- NickTheKid87

The issue with the Flyers isn't that the defensemen suck, it's the mix more than anything else.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Defense Pairs, Blocked Shots, Callup Candidates and More
- bmeltzer

How far is Nick Cousins?

Bill,

it's clear that the flyers lacked foresight when they did the richards/carter reboot. how we bring in a whole slew of young talent and not address the d, i'll never understand.

some commentator - one of the national guys - assessing the flyers prior to last season, didn't understand why we got so young up front and brought in bryz, who would be past his prime when this core reached their peak. i was more concerned w/ the d at that time and reading your summary is a bitter reminder of homer's failure. we all know he tried, but it's not good enuf...he needs to get it done somehow. maybe he should go back to being the scouting director at this point because he's boxed himself into a corner as we are left with a team that is also short of scoring depth as well.

The issue with the Flyers isn't that the defensemen suck, it's the mix more than anything else.
- Jsaquella

Exactly but even so, it's not as bad as some teams in that regard. We were spoiled with Pronger.

How far is Nick Cousins?
- The_Universe

He's probably ticketed for the AHL next season, but the Flyers are high on him.

Bill,

it's clear that the flyers lacked foresight when they did the richards/carter reboot. how we bring in a whole slew of young talent and not address the d, i'll never understand.

some commentator - one of the national guys - assessing the flyers prior to last season, didn't understand why we got so young up front and brought in bryz, who would be past his prime when this core reached their peak. i was more concerned w/ the d at that time and reading your summary is a bitter reminder of homer's failure. we all know he tried, but it's not good enuf...he needs to get it done somehow. maybe he should go back to being the scouting director at this point because he's boxed himself into a corner as we are left with a team that is also short of scoring depth as well.
- isaiah520

I really don't think they are short of scoring depth. They miss Hartnell big time but when guys play the way they are capable of, the goals come. We've seen that already this season. Voracek still has yet to turn it on, same goes for Brayden Schenn. Giroux started to look like himself this weekend and that will be HUGE for the offense.

You know what is really depressing to watch? The devolution of Alexander Ovechkin. I agree with Jonesy that he has become so predictable and needs to go to the front of the net more. He hasn't adjusted his game to the way team's play him and it shows. Remember when people actually thought he was better than Crosby?

Re: Cousins, Jsaq hit the nail on the head.

I think he's a guy who is going to have some adjusting to do when he hits the pros. Despite his junior point totals, he may be more of a third-line agitator type in the NHL than a top six.

But to make it in the NHL, he needs to continue to improve his defensive play and skating. He's a bit undersized but "plays big" so I'm not too worried about that. He needs to continue working on balancing aggression/agitation with walking the line in terms of discipline. As a player who needs to push the envelope to be effective, that's not the easiest thing to do.

The Flyers also need to decide if he'll remain at center or become a winger. He has center playmaking ability (though not elite caliber) but his lack of size is less concern on the wing. He's going to have skate better to play RW, and he's not really physically strong enough to be an ideal LW.

As such, he's the type of prospect who needs time in the AHL to figure out what will work at the pro level and for the organization to find the right spot for him, both positionally and in terms of his role at the NHL level.

In a perfect world, his offense carries over to the pros and he becomes a second-liner in the NHL. But I'm setting the expectations a little lower and predicting that he plays all three forward spots and moves around the lineup; sort of a more aggressive Matt Read with less speed and less accomplished defensively.

You know what is really depressing to watch? The devolution of Alexander Ovechkin. I agree with Jonesy that he has become so predictable and needs to go to the front of the net more. He hasn't adjusted his game to the way team's play him and it shows. Remember when people actually thought he was better than Crosby?
- NickTheKid87

I wouldn't say I thought he was better than Crosby, but I certainly found him more enjoyable to watch than Crosby. It agree that it is sad to watch Ovie's game fall apart.

Re: Cousins, Jsaq hit the nail on the head.

I think he's a guy who is going to have some adjusting to do when he hits the pros. Despite his junior point totals, he may be more of a third-line agitator type in the NHL than a top six.

But to make it in the NHL, he needs to continue to improve his defensive play and skating. He's a bit undersized but "plays big" so I'm not too worried about that. He needs to continue working on balancing aggression/agitation with walking the line in terms of discipline. As a player who needs to push the envelope to be effective, that's not the easiest thing to do.

The Flyers also need to decide if he'll remain at center or become a winger. He has center playmaking ability (though not elite caliber) but his lack of size is less concern on the wing. He's going to have skate better to play RW, and he's not really physically strong enough to be an ideal LW.

As such, he's the type of prospect who needs time in the AHL to figure out what will work at the pro level and for the organization to find the right spot for him, both positionally and in terms of his role at the NHL level.

In a perfect world, his offense carries over to the pros and he becomes a second-liner in the NHL. But I'm setting the expectations a little lower and predicting that he plays all three forward spots and moves around the lineup; sort of a more aggressive Matt Read with less speed and less accomplished defensively.
- bmeltzer

What ever happened with the sexual assault charges?

You know what is really depressing to watch? The devolution of Alexander Ovechkin. I agree with Jonesy that he has become so predictable and needs to go to the front of the net more. He hasn't adjusted his game to the way team's play him and it shows. Remember when people actually thought he was better than Crosby?
- NickTheKid87

At one time, he might have been. But no player could hold up physically the way he threw his body around so recklessly. It was either tone it down or end up like Eric Lindros. Ovechkin has been able to stay in the lineup but has lost a lot of the things -- apart from that rocket of a shot -- that made him such a force.

What ever happened with the sexual assault charges?
- NickTheKid87

Still pending. Court day was moved back to February and could possibly be postponed again until the end of his season.

I wouldn't say I thought he was better than Crosby, but I certainly found him more enjoyable to watch than Crosby. It agree that it is sad to watch Ovie's game fall apart.
- johndewar

I never thought he was better than Sid either but I don't think anyone in the game was as exciting to watch as Ovechkin.

At one time, he might have been. But no player could hold up physically the way he threw his body around so recklessly. It was either tone it down or end up like Eric Lindros. Ovechkin has been able to stay in the lineup but has lost a lot of the things -- apart from that rocket of a shot -- that made him such a force.
- bmeltzer

The thing I always pointed to in the Crosby vs. Ovechkin debate was that Sid played a much better all around game, not to mention he elevated the play of everyone around him. He made Bill Guerin look like he still had gas in the tank. Crosby does everything right while Ovi relied on only his skill for the most part.

I really don't think they are short of scoring depth. They miss Hartnell big time but when guys play the way they are capable of, the goals come. We've seen that already this season. Voracek still has yet to turn it on, same goes for Brayden Schenn. Giroux started to look like himself this weekend and that will be HUGE for the offense.
- NickTheKid87

besides briere, i don't see guys with great hands who convert chances...pure goal scorers. maybe G, but i still see him as a guy who'd rather pass.

besides briere, i don't see guys with great hands who convert chances...pure goal scorers. maybe G, but i still see him as a guy who'd rather pass.
- isaiah520

They didn't have "pure" goal scorer last year and finished the year with the third most goals for. Boston finished second last year and they didn't have a guy with more than 30 goals and the Flyers finished 6th in goals for in 2008-09, the year Carter put up 46, Gagne scored 34 and Richards and Hartnell had 30. I think the Flyers have enough depth to make up for there lack of "pure" goal scorers. It's just about executing with the personnel they have.

Almost hate to say it, but LA looks like it could be a good trade partner for the Flyers.

The Kings really seem to be missing stay at home defensemen Willie Mitchell and Matt Greene. They have big winger and pancake aficionado Dustin Penner who isn't playing much and a couple of younger, fairly mobile defensemen(Slava Voynov, Alec Martinez) that could fit the Flyers needs.

Not sure what a deal for Penner & one of those two defensemen would cost, but as I mentioned, Penner's been a spare part at best in LA. I can't see it being a massive expense. Not that Voynov or Martinez would be a number one defenseman, but they bring mobility and youth.
- Jsaquella

Penner?

I never thought he was better than Sid either but I don't think anyone in the game was as exciting to watch as Ovechkin.
- NickTheKid87

There was a time when I thought Ovi was better, in retrospect I think it was a biased sentiment. One thing's for sure, it's not a conversation without his explosive offense.

i'd like to see them stay with the patchwork lineup. gus will eventually get a shot, and meszaros will come back. either they get a stop gap average player who likely won't make any real difference, or they overpay for some a high-end name (like a bouwmeester who's struggled). neither scenario seems like a good one.
- hammarby31

ty

Bill,

it's clear that the flyers lacked foresight when they did the richards/carter reboot. how we bring in a whole slew of young talent and not address the d, i'll never understand.

some commentator - one of the national guys - assessing the flyers prior to last season, didn't understand why we got so young up front and brought in bryz, who would be past his prime when this core reached their peak. i was more concerned w/ the d at that time and reading your summary is a bitter reminder of homer's failure. we all know he tried, but it's not good enuf...he needs to get it done somehow. maybe he should go back to being the scouting director at this point because he's boxed himself into a corner as we are left with a team that is also short of scoring depth as well.
- isaiah520

I think that's looking at things as negatively as possible.

The defense has obviously taken some hits-but at the start of last season the Flyers had a very deep and very solid looking defense. Pronger and Timonen were older, but still playing at high levels. Carle and Coburn were as solid as any 3rd/4th defensemen in the league. Meszaros as a 5th guy was likely the best 5th guy in the league.

Up front, they were looking at guys like Giroux to break out, but also had vets like Briere, Hartnell and Jagr. While players like Voracek and Simmonds were still young, they had both had a couple/few years of NHL experience.

Now, looking at last off season, the Flyers made every effort to fix the need for a number one defenseman. They threw asinine cash at Ryan Suter. They actually signed Weber to an offer sheet. It's not as if they stood pat. They missed out.

As for the current woes, The Flyers have already had 4 of the projected top six miss at least one game this season, with either injury or suspension. Do that with any NHL team and you'd see a team with trouble scoring.

I'm not downplaying issues or saying that everything is going to be fine. But your view is taking the absolute extreme end of the pessimistic side of things.

They didn't have "pure" goal scorer last year and finished the year with the third most goals for. Boston finished second last year and they didn't have a guy with more than 30 goals and the Flyers finished 6th in goals for in 2008-09, the year Carter put up 46, Gagne scored 34 and Richards and Hartnell had 30. I think the Flyers have enough depth to make up for there lack of "pure" goal scorers. It's just about executing with the personnel they have.
- NickTheKid87

carter and gagne are qualify as snipers and last yr we had so many guys who had career yrs, it was iffy to think that they would repeat that.

Penner?
- Daman

Obviously you haven't seen or read my follow up comments. Penner would be a very short term solution to the team being without Simmonds and Hartnell. I'd be looking to waive or trade Penner as soon as one or both of the injured wingers returns.

Penner's inclusion would be more to entice the Kings to dump his salary than a plan to actually get a scoring line winger

I think that's looking at things as negatively as possible.

The defense has obviously taken some hits-but at the start of last season the Flyers had a very deep and very solid looking defense. Pronger and Timonen were older, but still playing at high levels. Carle and Coburn were as solid as any 3rd/4th defensemen in the league. Meszaros as a 5th guy was likely the best 5th guy in the league.

Up front, they were looking at guys like Giroux to break out, but also had vets like Briere, Hartnell and Jagr. While players like Voracek and Simmonds were still young, they had both had a couple/few years of NHL experience.

Now, looking at last off season, the Flyers made every effort to fix the need for a number one defenseman. They threw asinine cash at Ryan Suter. They actually signed Weber to an offer sheet. It's not as if they stood pat. They missed out.

As for the current woes, The Flyers have already had 4 of the projected top six miss at least one game this season, with either injury or suspension. Do that with any NHL team and you'd see a team with trouble scoring.

I'm not downplaying issues or saying that everything is going to be fine. But your view is taking the absolute extreme end of the pessimistic side of things.
- Jsaquella

i think it is a realistic take. homer somehow went from having a sufeit of assets to being boxed in where we now will likely have to part with couts and/or a #1 pick to get the guy we need. i will admit that reading Bill's assessment really ticked me off, because i wanted that trade for a dman 2 yrs ago. all of this time between then and now, i've been wary of where we were headed on d.

I think Keaton Ellerby has "Coburn potential" if he can put things together. He could probably be had, because he's really struggled in Florida for pretty much his entire pro career to date.

Zach Bogosian is solidly entrenched in Winnipeg but has yet to play this season due to a wrist injury, plus is an RFA after the season, and is going to get paid more based on potential (which is still sky high) rather than actual performance in the NHL. He's had his share of growing pains, but appeared to be blossoming as last season progressed. If he struggles when he returns to the lineup AND if the Jets continue to be so inconsistent, it will be interesting to see what the Jets do over the summer with him when he's an RFA.

Winnipeg has already signed Tobias Enström to a long-term deal, which pre-empted him becoming a UFA this summer (which is a shame, because he'd have made for a good heir apparent to Timonen if he was interested in coming here). So they'll keep Enström and they'll keep Bogosian. But what about Byfuglien? Something in that team's mix needs to change.
- bmeltzer

I dont see the jets parting with any of their d. Right now they are taking the long route toward building a winning team and IMO their offensive issues are much more pressing then their D. Plus big buff is a cornerstone of their powerplay.

I never thought he was better than Sid either but I don't think anyone in the game was as exciting to watch as Ovechkin.
- NickTheKid87

Kind of like Kovalchuk. Although he still puts up points, Kovalchuk isn't the same dynamic player he used to be, but that may be more of a team issue than personal.