Bermi is so frustrating to watch, you see flashes of what he can do then he has a brain fart for a few games. Hes like a better downie with less anger issues haha.

I agree bogo and Wheeler are due big raises, but I see bogo making more money then Wheeler, IMO he has more upside and I could see Wheeler taking a hometown discount to stay as he just moved his family to Minny.
- flyers4487

I think Bogo ends up with more simply as he's a defenseman.

Burmistrov is one of those guys that teams will always be willing to take a chance on. Tons of talent. If he could be consistent, he'd be an all star

In regards to the Luke Schenn trade, I think it was pretty even (close enough that the margin of value won or lost is negligible). An ugly thought is, can you imagine this team with one less top 4 forward? Gervais would literally be one of our top 4 defensemen right now, and not just by virtue of handedness. We definitely need some puck movement, but I'm glad we got a young, physical fixture on our blueline in the meantime.
- BulliesPhan87

Uhhh.. what?

it was a stick that hit him in the face, but regardless..
- jak521

Yeaa its Monday, I really have no excuse for that one.. especially since I was at that game...maybe a cage would have helped....

Here the funny thing though... He did that.. exactly that. He got us Pronger. He got us Timonen. He got us Coburn, Meszy, Carle, Grossmann, Schenn. People female dog and female dog and female dog... but one thing Homer HAS definitely done.. Gotten us great d-men.
- jak521

The only real mistake Holmgren has ever made was with that Eminger deal but he still got Coburn for Zhitnik and Couturier & Voracek for Carter. Those are great trades in my book.

Failure how? He threw hundreds of millions of dollars at Weber, Suter, and Parise and lost out. You can't say he hasn't tried to bring in a franchise Dman. But it's easier said than done. And giving up half of your offensive prospect is NOT the way to go about it. Yeah, you may be better on D, but then you're going to have an offensive problem. There needs to be a balance. And to this point, there's really nothing Homer can do that he hasn't tried, unless you want him to sell the farm for one guy...

What do you suggest he do? Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk will be re-signed... Yandle isn't leaving Phoenix unless Homer gets robbed in the deal. J-Bo is washed up, overpaid, and streaky. Enstrom is re-signed. Nashville isn't going to trade Weber after giving him the bonus, not to mention they will want way too much in return again... Carle, imo, got more than he was worth, so I'm glad Homer didn't throw the money at him - but the market determined it. Buffalo isn't parting with Myers... Tampa isn't parting with Hedman.. Ottawa isn't parting with Karlsson..

Granted, maybe he could have done more over the years in developing better dmen through the system, or drafting a hyped dman... But some of you expect to have all of the best players in the league, and fit it under the cap... all without giving up any major assets. That's called the All-Star game.. not reality.
- WarriorHockey21

You are kinda reinforcing my point. Dmen are a much more valuable commodity and the better ones are likely to be resigned by their drafting teams, barring a money issue like Suter. We need to draft them rather than 3rd / 4th line forwards

if only he had been in sneakers instead of skates
- bradleyc4

Its Homers fault if you really think about it. Had Homer never traded that group of elite caliber all-stars for that geriatric (frank) of a human Pronger.. he would have never played in that game and would have never been turned in to cyclops.

The only real mistake Holmgren has ever made was with that Eminger deal but he still got Coburn for Zhitnik and Couturier & Voracek for Carter. Those are great trades in my book.
- NickTheKid87

even though the eminger deal was a total cluster (frank).. he was able to spin it into Carle.

I think Bogo ends up with more simply as he's a defenseman.

Burmistrov is one of those guys that teams will always be willing to take a chance on. Tons of talent. If he could be consistent, he'd be an all star
- Jsaquella

Haha yea there's that too.

I agree 100% on bermi, only time will tell but I hope hes what everyone thinks he will be.

Im not going to lie I wish we had the jets d over the flyers d right now. Its not much better but its an easier d to build around then what we have.

even though the eminger deal was a total cluster (frank).. he was able to spin it into Carle.
- jak521

which made it worth it imo, a bad deal is not a bad deal if you can turn it into a good one.

Its Homers fault if you really think about it. Had Homer never traded that group of elite caliber all-stars for that geriatric (frank) of a human Pronger.. he would have never played in that game and would have never been turned in to cyclops.
- jak521

How did sisba turn out?

even though the eminger deal was a total cluster (frank).. he was able to spin it into Carle.
- jak521

Yeah good point. Eminger and Downie for Carle is pretty nice too. I mean, it would be great to have a guy like John Carlson or Jacob Markstrom in the pipeline but would people be complaining about that over deal if Pronger never got hurt? Tough to say.

You are kinda reinforcing my point. Dmen are a much more valuable commodity and the better ones are likely to be resigned by their drafting teams, barring a money issue like Suter. We need to draft them rather than 3rd / 4th line forwards
- TheGreat28

yeah, but that's so much LESS of an exact science...and something the Flyers have less control of than i think you realize. say they did find dmen at their drafting positions (if someone wants to list comparably drafted dmen around their picking times for the past couple years, cool!) what's to say they are the cornerstones of this team like Giroux, Hartnell, Coburn, and Timmonen are/were?

How did sisba turn out?
- flyers4487

In all likely hood.. he would be the # 5 on the Flyers right now. I make that trade 65 times a week.

Its Homers fault if you really think about it. Had Homer never traded that group of elite caliber all-stars for that geriatric (frank) of a human Pronger.. he would have never played in that game and would have never been turned in to cyclops.
- jak521

Good point. Actually, great point.

I think a lot of people here fail to discount the short season, limited time to prepare as a team, and starting in January. That, plus injuries, make the team look like crap.

I am interesting in seeing how this team plays the last 15-20 games. We'll see.

Good week to all.

-Da Man

In all likely hood.. he would be the # 5 on the Flyers right now. I make that trade 65 times a week.
- jak521

Sbisa still has a ways to go and I like him but Sbisa, Lupul, Etem and John Moore for a franchise defenseman is a great deal.

Same can be said for forwards. The point is, if you don't have a hand in the poker game you're not going home with the pot. To me Laughton will likely be a solid 3rd line checking center. The cost of acquiring a comparable player is a LOT lower than acquiring a 3-4 dman, or especially a 1-2 dman.

I'll defer to your knowledge of the game any and every time Jsaq. Are ANY of the guys you named really projected to be higher than a 5-6, other than Ghost? The guys I named (a lot of us wanted in the draft, including you if I recall) are likely 3-4 guys (maybe best case could be a 2).

And I'm not really not trying to argue about it, and don't really buy into Isaiah's side of the discussion either. I'm more in the middle - not so bleak but without a better, sustainable plan for the d I'm not sure they go far. And like you, I mostly worry about them doing something really rash (and stupid), and trading a Read or Simmonds for some 34 year old rental player.
- TheGreat28

I'll grant that the players I named don't project as top pair defensemen. At the same time, Duncan Keith wasn't a first rounder. Nor was Shea Weber. Dan Girardi wasn't even drafted. Tobias Enstrom was an 8th rounder...they didn't project as top level defensemen when they were 18, either.

I worry about trading a kid for a rental player, too. But I also don't see the window as closing on this team. I lean towards being optimistic, no doubt. But I'm also enough of a realist to recognize the concerns. But I also look at what the team has done through the years to know that they're not Don Waddell or John Ferguson Jr

His mobility was an issue? Damn where was I? There may not have been a wiser d-man in the league than Pronger. He knew he wasnt 25 any more.. so he changed his game. He used to be a chaser.. going after every play, delivering huge hits, and pinching and jumping on the puck.. He changed his style. He was nearly flawless positionally.. he was incredibly wise in picking his spots.. he would have had no problem playing out that contract.


EDIT: Nik Lidstrom... that it.
- jak521

He was having knee issues and i think some back issues although i may be makinig that up. I agree with his hockey sense but he was starting to break down. saying he would have had no problem playing out his contract is a bit of a stretch. I seem to rememeber many people questioning wether he would still be playing by the end of his contract and if so at what level.

i have total understanding of homer's failure to set us up better on the backline. reality is proof...
- isaiah520

Unless you're claiming that Pronger receiving a career ending injury, and Meszaros gettig hurt in the off season, and again getting another injury during play this Season, as being Holmgren's failure. Then the reality isn;t the proof you offer. Nor is there a clear understanding.

He was having knee issues and i think some back issues although i may be makinig that up. I agree with his hockey sense but he was starting to break down. saying he would have had no problem playing out his contract is a bit of a stretch. I seem to rememeber many people questioning wether he would still be playing by the end of his contract and if so at what level.
- Stinkfitz

When Pronger suffered his concussion, he had 12 points in 13 games. His biggest issue prior to the concussion was the wrist injury that limited him in 2010-11.

Kimmo Timonen was dealing with back and knee injuries

Kovalchuk still puts up good numbers. I think he finished 5th in scoring last year. Regardless, something that we'll start to see happen is that these guys who come in and play when they're 18 or 19 will start to wear out in there early 30s where as guys who start playing in the NHL in their early to mid-20s will be more effective in their mid-30s.
- NickTheKid87

I know he still puts up the numbers. But he's lost that "dynamic" where he was an unstoppable goal scoring machine. There were times in Atlanta where he'd get the puck in the neutral zone with a full head of steam, and you just knew there was no way the defense could stop him from scoring a goal, very much like Ovechkin. That's the missing element, that level of excitement. Now he's more of a PP one-time scorer and work your way into the slot scorer.

I like how pessimism colored with hindsight criticism are considered 'being realistic', as if to imply anybody who isn't retroactively distributing criticism and I-told-you-so's is suffering some kind of delusion.

You know what I think it means to be realistic? Understanding that having a need doesn't necessarily make that solution available, let alone at a reasonable cost. It's knowing that a franchise is always taking risks, and is operating in real-time, not via hindsight. It's knowing that long term solutions can't be scheduled within short term plans. (And it means editing the last sentence out of your rant when you re-read it and find one statement totally redundant)

I won't say those who tend toward more critical outlooks are not being realistic, but to imply anybody who doesn't share this hindsight angst and criticism is being unrealistic is laughably egotistical.

/rant

Unless you're claiming that Pronger receiving a career ending injury, and Meszaros gettig hurt in the off season, and again getting another injury during play this Season, as being Holmgren's failure. Then the reality isn;t the proof you offer. Nor is there a clear understanding.
- MJL

Holmgren failed to have a franchise defenseman waiting in the AHL in case Pronger got hurt.

Also, he only offered $200mm in contracts to land a new one this summer. Idiot. He should be a peanut vendor

He was having knee issues and i think some back issues although i may be makinig that up. I agree with his hockey sense but he was starting to break down. saying he would have had no problem playing out his contract is a bit of a stretch. I seem to rememeber many people questioning wether he would still be playing by the end of his contract and if so at what level.
- Stinkfitz

He probably wouldn't be playing the last 2 years, but those would have been low hit buyout years (under $1M I think). He was still a very effective #1 defenseman when he had the eye injury.

He was having knee issues and i think some back issues although i may be makinig that up. I agree with his hockey sense but he was starting to break down. saying he would have had no problem playing out his contract is a bit of a stretch. I seem to rememeber many people questioning wether he would still be playing by the end of his contract and if so at what level.
- Stinkfitz

He had general wear and tear issues.. but nothing career threatening. The guy was a fitness nut.. he knew exactly what he was capable of handling..

To start that season he had 12 points in 13 games.. He was back to form... Its tragic what happened to him. Easy first ballot HOFer

Good point. Actually, great point.

I think a lot of people here fail to discount the short season, limited time to prepare as a team, and starting in January. That, plus injuries, make the team look like crap.

I am interesting in seeing how this team plays the last 15-20 games. We'll see.

Good week to all.

-Da Man
- Daman

We would be in much worse shape if we had a full season...id argue the lockout helped us if only because it fd up alot of other teams lol