i feel like this is really the ONLY "questionable" move that the FLYERS NEEDED TO DRAFT DEFENSE LIKE THE PAST 4 YEARS (FNTDDLTP4) Club can have a qualm about...but in the end, the Flyers instead got a player that EVERYONE was so stoked on last year and during the off-season.
- eshake

It was basically picking between a top pairing defenseman or a shutdown, Selke type center with offensive upside. It's really a win-win.

Its hard for me to say that when our defense was pretty jam packed at the time... I was hoping we would get Dougie Hamilton, but when Couts was still on the board.. I was stoked. Im happy with that decision.
- jak521

It's okay to say that it was jam packed but at the time our top two were Pronger and Timmonen who were over 35 while our forwards were not. I'm usually all about drafting the best player but in this case I think the skill level difference wasn't significant enough to void taking the need.

I think the Flyers just address that area differently than some teams. We are an impatient franchise.. so it would make sense that the two positions that require the most patience (d and goalie) would be an org, weakness.
- jak521

That may be. It's not something I want to harp on too much. No team can have literally everything, and no team develops all their own players. It's a give and take, and part of that is maximizing organizational strengths to fulfill the 'give' aspect of the equation.

I think Kovalchuk now is more valuable than Kovalchuk in Atlanta. I think you're right about his D effecting his O.
- NickTheKid87

I would definitely take 2011-12 Kovalchuk over his Atlanta edition. His offense is still pretty damn good, there's a reason the words 'quick release' are spoken by the announcers literally every time he's on the ice. (That's what she said)

i feel like this is really the ONLY "questionable" move that the FLYERS NEEDED TO DRAFT DEFENSE LIKE THE PAST 4 YEARS (FNTDDLTP4) Club can have a qualm about...but in the end, the Flyers instead got a player that EVERYONE was so stoked on last year and during the off-season.
- eshake

I think I've been pretty consistent in my head scratching over the burning love the team and the fan base has for Couturier. That's not to say I don't appreciate the kid and what he brings to the team but more the level of unmitigated support he has. You'd think he was Mark Messier or something.

It's okay to say that it was jam packed but at the time our top two were Pronger and Timmonen who were over 35 while our forwards were not. I'm usually all about drafting the best player but in this case I think the skill level difference wasn't significant enough to void taking the need.
- mayorofangrytown

well, remember too that we just traded 2 centermen before that draft and had a future and present need for a 3rd line center (with Giroux and Schenn slated for the other 2)

Jam packed more than Boston?
- Stinkfitz

best available at that point.. If Couts wasnt available when we picked.. we'd have Hamilton.

well, remember too that we just traded 2 centermen before that draft and had a future and present need for a 3rd line center (with Giroux and Schenn slated for the other 2)
- eshake

So what you're saying is that with Giroux, Schenn and Briere up the middle (average age of about 25) what we needed was a third line center when top three defenseman had a cumulative age approaching 100?

best available at that point.. If Couts wasnt available when we picked.. we'd have Hamilton.
- jak521

I kept hoping someone would draft him when he dropped past 5. Not sure he was the best available. Time will tell.

Brown is like the Kensington of the Ivy League
- Jsaquella

So what you're saying is that with Giroux, Schenn and Briere up the middle (average age of about 25) what we needed was a third line center when top three defenseman had a cumulative age approaching 100?
- mayorofangrytown

I think part of the equation is that Briere isn't a long term fixture at this point (with only two years after this remaining, and amnesties to consider through the next two offseasons). There's also the possibility they anticipated needing to move one of Schenn or Couturier to fill another hole later on, after they'd developed more.

So what you're saying is that with Giroux, Schenn and Briere up the middle (average age of about 25) what we needed was a third line center when top three defenseman had a cumulative age approaching 100?
- mayorofangrytown

Why are you using average age in one side of the comparison and cumulative age in the other side of the comparison.

Compare much?

So what you're saying is that with Giroux, Schenn and Briere up the middle (average age of about 25) what we needed was a third line center when top three defenseman had a cumulative age approaching 100?
- mayorofangrytown

the thought was grioux, schenn, and couterier....so yeah, i guess that's what im' saying?

i'm not riding Couterier's shaft as hard as many, but i still think it was a solid pick despite Hamilton being on the board. but, again, one of the peeps raging on the flyers for not stockpiling dmen talent could make a case against that one pick.

So what you're saying is that with Giroux, Schenn and Briere up the middle (average age of about 25) what we needed was a third line center when top three defenseman had a cumulative age approaching 100?
- mayorofangrytown

Don't discredit what Couturier can do defensively though. Like Bill said, a Selke level center with offense is just as rare as a top pairing defenseman.

He had general wear and tear issues.. but nothing career threatening. The guy was a fitness nut.. he knew exactly what he was capable of handling..

To start that season he had 12 points in 13 games.. He was back to form... Its tragic what happened to him. Easy first ballot HOFer
- jak521

Who said the following quote after being drafted the spot before Pronger then went on to wear the orange and black years later?

"I'm glad I got drafted first, because no one remembers number two"

i'd like to see them stay with the patchwork lineup. gus will eventually get a shot, and meszaros will come back. either they get a stop gap average player who likely won't make any real difference, or they overpay for some a high-end name (like a bouwmeester who's struggled). neither scenario seems like a good one.
- hammarby31

Why are you using average age in one side of the comparison and cumulative age in the other side of the comparison.

Compare much?
- steelydan

Why yes I do. Basic math an issue for you?

The Flyers didn't lack foresight in those deals. Unless you think that Holmgren should've predicted Pronger getting a career ending injury. That is revisionist history. The current status of the defense doesn't all of a sudden make those deals bad deals. That's ridiculous.
You're prespective is that this team's window is closing, instead of what it really is. Which is just opening. This team is not a finished product. And nobody beleives that it is. Except maybe the national commentator that forms your opinions. That national commentator is who lacks foresight.
When you make the deals the Flyers made. It requires a number of things. One of them is patience. Some don't have it I guess.
Bryzgalov is 32 years old. Goalies routinely play into their late 30's.
Look at the defenseman that Holmgren has acquired. Pronger, Timonen, Carle, Meszaros, Coburn, Grossmann, Schenn. Seems as though Holmgren knows how to acquire defenseman.
And the Flyers when healthy have plenty of scoring depth. They have young players that need to develop and grow. That again takes patience.
The Statement that Holmgren needs to go back to scouting is off base. He's a solid GM. Give it some time and see what happens.
- MJL

the thought was grioux, schenn, and couterier....so yeah, i guess that's what im' saying?

i'm not riding Couterier's shaft as hard as many, but i still think it was a solid pick despite Hamilton being on the board. but, again, one of the peeps raging on the flyers for not stockpiling dmen talent could make a case against that one pick.
- eshake

I can't go back and change any of it so what's the point.

- Flyskippy

Holmgren failed to have a franchise defenseman waiting in the AHL in case Pronger got hurt.

Also, he only offered $200mm in contracts to land a new one this summer. Idiot. He should be a peanut vendor
- Jsaquella

New Hlolmger criticism: "He a-salted me!"

I think I've been pretty consistent in my head scratching over the burning love the team and the fan base has for Couturier. That's not to say I don't appreciate the kid and what he brings to the team but more the level of unmitigated support he has. You'd think he was Mark Messier or something.
- mayorofangrytown

On the flip side, it's difficult not to gush over the skill set that Couturier possesses. Could be a 1a/1b situation in a year or two with Giroux, where Couturier takes all the tough minutes, leaving Claude to focus on scoring 150 goals a season.

- mayorofangrytown

I'm recapping things for my reading later. All I have to do is start on this page and go from here.

Bill, Jsaq, MJL, & hammar were right on this morning.

I really think that Holmgren has to realize a desperation move would be counterproductive to our long-term needs (if it means a trade for the sake of a trade, which is what I think obtaining Iginla would be), less they can get a young D-man for a reasonable price.

However, I realize that forward is not one of our most pressing needs, but what if Iginla would agree to a reasonable extension with us? Maybe 3 years 9 million?

I think he would be a great locker room guy, sort of in the same vein as Jagr last year.

Also, I know its old news. But for the right deal, that the organization could legitimately sell to the fan base, do you think Weber could be pried away?

Maybe Couts, Schenn, and this years 1st?

I can't go back and change any of it so what's the point.
- mayorofangrytown

you were our last hope tho....