I'll grant that the players I named don't project as top pair defensemen. At the same time, Duncan Keith wasn't a first rounder. Nor was Shea Weber. Dan Girardi wasn't even drafted. Tobias Enstrom was an 8th rounder...they didn't project as top level defensemen when they were 18, either.

I worry about trading a kid for a rental player, too. But I also don't see the window as closing on this team. I lean towards being optimistic, no doubt. But I'm also enough of a realist to recognize the concerns. But I also look at what the team has done through the years to know that they're not Don Waddell or John Ferguson Jr
- Jsaquella

Actually, you really have a good balance between optimism and realism. I'm similar, but probably skew slighly to the side that neglecting to develope a young, strong defensive core could be the thing that prevents them from winning it all, a la this generation's goaltending. Now, I say "could". I don't think Holmgren is neglecting the defense per se, but by "buying" the defense instead of "growing" the defense long term the cost could erode the team's strength and keep it as a 2nd tier club.

I really think that Holmgren has to realize a desperation move would be counterproductive to our long-term needs (if it means a trade for the sake of a trade, which is what I think obtaining Iginla would be), less they can get a young D-man for a reasonable price.

However, I realize that forward is not one of our most pressing needs, but what if Iginla would agree to a reasonable extension with us? Maybe 3 years 9 million?

I think he would be a great locker room guy, sort of in the same vein as Jagr last year.

Also, I know its old news. But for the right deal, that the organization could legitimately sell to the fan base, do you think Weber could be pried away?

Maybe Couts, Schenn, and this years 1st?
- DrMidnite

Question: How do any of us know he needs to realize this? Perhaps he has known this all along.

Question: How do any of us know he needs to realize this? Perhaps he has known this all along.
- Flyskippy

If there is a desperation move, it wouldn't be far fetched to think it isn't Holmgren's idea either.

If there is a desperation move, it wouldn't be far fetched to think it isn't Holmgren's idea either.
- BulliesPhan87

Hello

ANSWER: AGING FORWARD


enter Iggy. book it.

Actually, you really have a good balance between optimism and realism. I'm similar, but probably skew slighly to the side that neglecting to develope a young, strong defensive core could be the thing that prevents them from winning it all, a la this generation's goaltending. Now, I say "could". I don't think Holmgren is neglecting the defense per se, but by "buying" the defense instead of "growing" the defense long term the cost could erode the team's strength and keep it as a 2nd tier club.
- TheGreat28

Most teams "buy" their defense.

It's very rare and difficult to build a defense through the draft.

Food for thought...
People are angry that we dont draft d-men in the first round. We need to, that way we can get a top end, franchise d-man!! Right?

Well:
8 of the top 25 D-men in scoring (right now) were 1st round picks. Out of the other 2/3 of the top 25... there were 3 8th round picks, a ninth round pick, 3 undrafted players..

Drafting d-men is a crap shoot.
- jak521

Or looking at it a different way, 18 out of 25 were high draft picks, based on your data.

Here's an analogy. I have a friend that is a literal math whiz. Went to Holland's equivalent of MIT. World's worst blackjack player ever. Why? He'll do stupid stuff like taking a hit on 15 when dealer has a 6. He had some math based excuse about statistics and probabilities and long-run, but he ignored the most basic statistics about number of bust cards vs. good cards.

The point is...you can point out the undrafted exceptions and 8th round picks, but the reality is that you are more likely to get top dman in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd rounds. Ok, Weber wasn't a 1st pick...he was a 2nd round pick. And 2nd point - the more guys you draft, the better the odds of getting one or two bona fide prospects.

I do question the tactic of not drafting a dman with top couple of picks last year, and considering they haven't had a decent home-grown defenseman in many many years, and had to deal away a lot of talent / picks to get them, it is a valid criticism.

Most teams "buy" their defense.

It's very rare and difficult to build a defense through the draft.
- bradleyc4

Do most teams buy the entire defense?

I guess reading through the tea leaves today, one can infer that by adding Iggy and Penner we are near the S.C.

-Da Man

I guess reading through the tea leaves today, one can infer that by adding Iggy and Penner we are near the S.C.

-Da Man
- Daman

and any dmen 39 to 56 2 should be good

Flyers drafted Kevin Marshall over Subban. It seems as if they were going after character over raw talent. I'll agree that picking defenseman ain't easy. For as average as Mashall turned out, aside from Subban, he's one of the better defenseman picked in that round.

If there is a desperation move, it wouldn't be far fetched to think it isn't Holmgren's idea either.
- BulliesPhan87

IDK, Despite some bad experiences, I cannot be a cynic.

Homer is intelligent. He obviously realizes our faults, and I really like to think that he will be a Flyer for life (no other teams in any capacity), and that he would put the future of the team above his own wants (keep his job as GM).

IDK, Despite some bad experiences, I cannot be a cynic.

Homer is intelligent. He obviously realizes our faults, and I really like to think that he will be a Flyer for life (no other teams in any capacity), and that he would put the future of the team above his own wants (keep his job as GM).
- DrMidnite

He's very intelligent. Philly is a very good feeder system for other teams to win S.C.'s.

Richards, Gagne, Carter, Brindy, J. Williams, P Sharp, etc. etc.

So some day we will get G a cup...just not here.

-Da Man

IDK, Despite some bad experiences, I cannot be a cynic.

Homer is intelligent. He obviously realizes our faults, and I really like to think that he will be a Flyer for life (no other teams in any capacity), and that he would put the future of the team above his own wants (keep his job as GM).
- DrMidnite

I like Holmger. I'm just saying Snider may push him into a desperation move.

Do most teams buy the entire defense?
- TheGreat28

The 2011 Bruins did, for example.

you were our last hope tho....
- eshake

Oh alright, bring me a Delorean and a mile of power cable.

Most teams "buy" their defense.

It's very rare and difficult to build a defense through the draft.
- bradleyc4

Unless you're Nashville...

Do most teams buy the entire defense?
- TheGreat28

We didn't buy Coburn or Gus

I like Holmger. I'm just saying Snider may push him into a desperation move.
- BulliesPhan87

I seriously doubt this. Snider is a smart hockey guy as well. Holmer would never have gotten this far without the ability to stand up to the owner and tell him where he is going wrong.

Holmer has my trust as a GM. Thankfully he doesn't listen to idiot trade ideas put forth like the Iginla thing. There is Not one GM out there who hasnt made a trade or aquisition that did not turn out, but way more often than not, Holmer has succeeded.

We didn't buy Coburn or Gus
- steelydan

Coburn came from Atlanta for Zhitnik.

Unless you're Nashville...
- mayorofangrytown

Chicago's done a nice job building a defense through the draft too. But it's very, very difficult -- plus, it takes years to reap the benefits.

Coburn came from Atlanta for Zhitnik.
- mayorofangrytown

Damnit.

I like Holmger. I'm just saying Snider may push him into a desperation move.
- BulliesPhan87

I hear ya. I actually fear that too. I love Ed Snider - he reminds me of a less 'frat-housey' Mark Cuban. And I would love Mark Cuban to own ANY of our teams here in Phila.

And we all want the same thing, a championship. And I think Snider wants both long and short term health for the team too. But when you get older and start thinking about mortality and legacy more and more...you might start to compromise a little (AKA-GET ME A GOALIE NOW ((overpays for Bryz))).

Not trolling here........

What is a flyers fan honest assessment of Luke Schenn so far?

Not trolling here........

What is a flyers fan honest assessment of Luke Schenn so far?
- faceto27

Better skater than advertised. Needs work on decision making at times. His angles maybe too, overtall I am happy with the trade. How about you guys with JVR?