yeah, but neither shelley nor sestito played saturday, so who comes out? rinaldo? they seem to love him.
- OrangeBlack27

Maybe they're going to protect G and keep him out of the lineup.

There's a perfect example. Who is going to be the one to try and kick his ass? Who do you want potentially breaking a hand on a helmet, or on his granite head? Or pulling a shoulder? Simmonds, Rinaldo, or Shelley? I know who I would choose to put in that predicament to stand up for his teammates.
- MJL

yeah but it almost a mainstay that all teams preserve one or maybe even 2 roster spots for guys who are merely foot soldiers and serve no purpose but to potentially lay a beating on someone

why is the choice btwn sestito and shelley is someone else injured?
- Don'tForgetTocchet

i forgot that they sat Sestito on Sat.

i know it's age-old hockey lore that enforcers somehow prevent players from "taking liberties", but personally, i think it's crap.

and to be honest, if caryle is dumb enough to run some goons out there against one of our skill lines, i'll be happy as hell because 99% of the time, that just means toronto will be pinned in their own end.
- OrangeBlack27

This happens all of the time. If Lavy, who seems to greatly appreciate the value of up-tempo hockey, is willing to sacrifice speed and energy for a guy that can defend his teammates; there must be some truth to it all. You can call it crap all you want. But the fact of the matter is that multiple coaches employ this method in order to not allow the other team to gain a physical/mental advantage against his team. What other reason would he have to switch things up and dress Shelley when his team is playing solid hockey?

I see the value in Shelley being dressed. If none of our other players would be able to stand up to Orr (Rinaldo, Simmonds, Schenn, etc.); what's to stop him from targeting our skill players, pushing them around after the whistle, etc.? Orr could easily get inside the players' heads, and they would likely be somewhat distracted through the course of a game to ensure that they aren't going to get slammed behind the boards, etc.

Now replay the same scenario with Shelley in the game. He can either: 1.) Confront Orr and fight him, which would take him off the ice for a few minutes and limit his minutes down the stretch; and/or 2.) start doing the same thing to the Leafs' skill players, getting in their head, etc. This would either deter Orr from the extracurricular activities or force the refs to call the game tighter against the agitators/goons. Either way, he neutralizes the effect that Orr has in the game.

People like to minimize the value that players such as Orr/Shelley hold in today's game. No one would say that they're as valuable as they were back in the day; it's just not true. But an effective player like that can easily change the tempo of the game and have a lasting effect for 60 minutes. It may not show up in the scoreshee; but the coaches notice it, the players notice it, as do the refs.

how? jvr makes more than luke.
- OrangeBlack27

it's really about the d slot that would have been filled w/o the trade, so I didn't put that right. I'd rather have carle and JVR than schenn and the xtra cap space. if we actually would have grabbed suter or weber thru the FA mkt, it's not like a trade would be that difficult at that point. bygones, i know.

This happens all of the time. If Lavy, who seems to greatly appreciate the value of up-tempo hockey, is willing to sacrifice speed and energy for a guy that can defend his teammates; there must be some truth to it all. You can call it crap all you want. But the fact of the matter is that multiple coaches employ this method in order to not allow the other team to gain a physical/mental advantage against his team. What other reason would he have to switch things up and dress Shelley when his team is playing solid hockey?

I see the value in Shelley being dressed. If none of our other players would be able to stand up to Orr (Rinaldo, Simmonds, Schenn, etc.); what's to stop him from targeting our skill players, pushing them around after the whistle, etc.? Orr could easily get inside the players' heads, and they would likely be somewhat distracted through the course of a game to ensure that they aren't going to get slammed behind the boards, etc.

Now replay the same scenario with Shelley in the game. He can either: 1.) Confront Orr and fight him, which would take him off the ice for a few minutes and limit his minutes down the stretch; and/or 2.) start doing the same thing to the Leafs' skill players, getting in their head, etc. This would either deter Orr from the extracurricular activities or force the refs to call the game tighter against the agitators/goons. Either way, he neutralizes the effect that Orr has in the game.

People like to minimize the value that players such as Orr/Shelley hold in today's game. No one would say that they're as valuable as they were back in the day; it's just not true. But an effective player like that can easily change the tempo of the game and have a lasting effect for 60 minutes. It may not show up in the scoreshee; but the coaches notice it, the players notice it, as do the refs.
- steelydan

yeah, i just disagree entirely.

Let me help.

That is typically not the case when Shelley is in the lineup. He plays his position well and makes the plays needed on the puck against the wall.

He is also solid in his positioning, which is a strong point I want to make because I already said it. Nevertheless, Shelley is in the lineup to handle any of Orr's nonsense. I have no problem with that.
- Daman

How about if before the game, we agree that neither Shelley nor Orr sets foot on the ice?

Other than watching staged fight which has nothing to do with the game, we wouldn't be missing anything, and we wouldn't have to watch either of them try to play hockey.

Deal?

Everybody knows we're talking about Colton Orr and not Bobby Orr, right?

yeah, i just disagree entirely.
- OrangeBlack27

Just the way I watch the game. People have always been divided on this topic; it is what it is. Thanks for taking the time to read my rant.

Everybody knows we're talking about Colton Orr and not Bobby Orr, right?
- NickTheKid87

colton orr is despicable

How about if before the game, we agree that neither Shelley nor Orr sets foot on the ice?

Other than watching staged fight which has nothing to do with the game, we wouldn't be missing anything, and we wouldn't have to watch either of them try to play hockey.

Deal?
- Atomic Wedgie

Much like a kite, I think my post that you quoted went way over your head. Please go back and read my original post and the quote preceding it.

I'd disagree with that. The Flyers needed to get better defensively. Luke Schenn can help with that. Now and in the future.
- MJL

how about just signing carle at that point w/o leaving us short a puck mover and scorer? we could have always traded a plyr if weber or suter had signed here. why go searching for a puck mover and then trade for a guy w/ a similar skill set to grossmanN? that said, Luke's bad moments have been few so far.

Hey Leaf fans,
Can you tell me about Kostka and Holzer?
I haven't had the chance to see them play.
- Marc D

Kostka: career AHLer, got a chance to play this year. Was logging really big minutes by virtue of being along side Phaneuf, but those minutes have come under 20 last couple of games.

He's the kind of guy that you hope you didn't notice at the end of the game.

Holzer: could be one of the top 50 defencemen to ever come out of Germany. Once again, I'm happy if he isn't noticable out there.

Double post.

Hey, how about the weather lately?

Craaaaazy weather we've been having.

The scoring will come. And Luke Schenn was acquired BEFORE Suter signed with Minnesota, Carle signed with Tampa and the offersheet to Weber was even made let alone matched, so the puck mover argument is moot.
- NickTheKid87

he didn't have to wait to sign carle and homer had lots of exp trading assets to clear cap space.

Much like a kite, I think my post that you quoted went way over your head. Please go back and read my original post and the quote preceding it.
- Daman

I got your post, champ.

Maybe they're going to protect G and keep him out of the lineup.
- bradleyc4

Full cages for everyone to prevent the umpteen high sticks that happened last year in the same game Pronger was hit in the eye.

is there some kind of strange parallel between the eagles re-signing mike vick and the flyers bringing back leighton?

Flyers better be careful tonight. Leafs are "hungry" for another victory.

I think the expeceted lineup is wrong.
Kadri will stay with Frattin/Mac.
I expect Mcclement to take Grobo's spot between Komarov and Kulemin, and this line will play 3rd line minutes in a shut down capacity vs Briere/Giroux.

Schenn has always been a monster with the body. That is, as long as the other team is slow enough for him to catch them. It will be very interesting to see how well he does agaisnt the pure speed of the leafs top 2 lines.

It's not an absolute lock that Shelley is in tonight. The Flyers didn't take line rushes at the skate this morning. But Shelley went off when the regulars did, rather than staying out for extra skating (which he normally does).

Pretty sure Colton Orr doesn't give two (frank)s who's dressed for the Flyers. If he wants to run Giroux, he will.

It's asinine to dress a "goon" as a reaction to that threat. However, there's not much difference between Shelley and Sestito, if those are the only two options. I have no problem with Shelley in the line-up if the reason is because Sestito isn't doing the work in the defensive zone.
- bradleyc4

Co-Sign.

Jody Shelley dressing or not dressing is going to have zero effect on Colton Orr's actions towards Giroux or the other Flyers skill guys. Shelley isn't going to stop anyone from delivering a hit or playing chippy with Giroux.

And if the choice is Shelley or Sesttito, flip a coin.

Everybody knows we're talking about Colton Orr and not Bobby Orr, right?
- NickTheKid87

You can't stop Colton Orr. You can only hope to contain him.

If the Leafs want to give that idiot a regular shift, I'm pretty OK with that.

how about just signing carle at that point w/o leaving us short a puck mover and scorer? we could have always traded a plyr if weber or suter had signed here. why go searching for a puck mover and then trade for a guy w/ a similar skill set to grossmanN? that said, Luke's bad moments have been few so far.
- isaiah520

Reports were that the Flyers and Carle had a deal last season, but didn't have the tagging space to actually get it signed right away.

Then July 1st hit and they attempted to get Suter or Weber. Both failed, and Carle ended up in Tampa.

They tried to go for the home run and struck out. It sucks. But it happens.

Mike Vick signs. 1 year. 10 big ones.

Carry on.

Edit. Late to the dance as always.

i forgot that they sat Sestito on Sat.
- bradleyc4

please banish yourself for this egregious error.