This is awkward Bill, but...

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
No supplemental discipline for TOR's Mikhail Grabovski. NHL says it could not determine conclusively Grabovski bit Pacioretty.

Flyers better be careful tonight. Leafs are "hungry" for another victory.

I think the expeceted lineup is wrong.
Kadri will stay with Frattin/Mac.
I expect Mcclement to take Grobo's spot between Komarov and Kulemin, and this line will play 3rd line minutes in a shut down capacity vs Briere/Giroux.

Schenn has always been a monster with the body. That is, as long as the other team is slow enough for him to catch them. It will be very interesting to see how well he does agaisnt the pure speed of the leafs top 2 lines.
- B-Wforever

Couldnt be any further from the truth. Reading a play correctly as it develops is how a defensman can catch a faster player with a big hit.

This is awkward Bill, but...

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
No supplemental discipline for TOR's Mikhail Grabovski. NHL says it could not determine conclusively Grabovski bit Pacioretty.
- NickTheKid87

i hope zac the ripper puts him on his back tonight

No suspension for Grabovski. My apologies for calling it a lock.

I see the value in Shelley being dressed. If none of our other players would be able to stand up to Orr (Rinaldo, Simmonds, Schenn, etc.); what's to stop him from targeting our skill players, pushing them around after the whistle, etc.?
- steelydan

You know, Craig Berube talked about this once. He didn't say who it was, but against (I believe) the North Stars, one of their tough guys was running around at some of the Flyers. Berube didn't confront the tough guy, he went up to one of the better players on the team and told him, "If he doesn't stop, I'm coming after you." It stopped, and the tough guy actually talked sensibly about it with Berube. While he's not the same caliber of fighter, Rinaldo could do the same thing to Kessel. Just let him know, if you take liberties against our guys, I'm not going to make them pay, I'm going to make your whole team play by removing their best player from the lineup.

Let me help.

That is typically not the case when Shelley is in the lineup. He plays his position well and makes the plays needed on the puck against the wall.

He is also solid in his positioning, which is a strong point I want to make because I already said it. Nevertheless, Shelley is in the lineup to handle any of Orr's nonsense. I have no problem with that.
- Duh Man

I thought he made his point well enough that this wasn't necessary.

No suspension for Grabovski. My apologies for calling it a lock.
- bmeltzer

Admitting you were wrong on Hockeybuzz is a bannable offence.

This happens all of the time. If Lavy, who seems to greatly appreciate the value of up-tempo hockey, is willing to sacrifice speed and energy for a guy that can defend his teammates; there must be some truth to it all. You can call it crap all you want. But the fact of the matter is that multiple coaches employ this method in order to not allow the other team to gain a physical/mental advantage against his team. What other reason would he have to switch things up and dress Shelley when his team is playing solid hockey?

I see the value in Shelley being dressed. If none of our other players would be able to stand up to Orr (Rinaldo, Simmonds, Schenn, etc.); what's to stop him from targeting our skill players, pushing them around after the whistle, etc.? Orr could easily get inside the players' heads, and they would likely be somewhat distracted through the course of a game to ensure that they aren't going to get slammed behind the boards, etc.

Now replay the same scenario with Shelley in the game. He can either: 1.) Confront Orr and fight him, which would take him off the ice for a few minutes and limit his minutes down the stretch; and/or 2.) start doing the same thing to the Leafs' skill players, getting in their head, etc. This would either deter Orr from the extracurricular activities or force the refs to call the game tighter against the agitators/goons. Either way, he neutralizes the effect that Orr has in the game.

People like to minimize the value that players such as Orr/Shelley hold in today's game. No one would say that they're as valuable as they were back in the day; it's just not true. But an effective player like that can easily change the tempo of the game and have a lasting effect for 60 minutes. It may not show up in the scoreshee; but the coaches notice it, the players notice it, as do the refs.
- steelydan

I see a few issues with this-first, Shelley isn't going to be the one running or grtting chippy with the Leafs skill guys. If you want to play Shelley against the JvR-Kessel line, I'm pretty sure Randy Carlyle would have a 4 hour erection. If there's going to be a Flyer that agitates and gets under the skin of the Leafs skill players, it's going to be Rinaldo.

Second. Shelley's presence isn't going to deter Orr from doing anything. Orr isn't worried that he'll have to answer to Shelley. You think that Orr cares that he'll have to fight Shelley if he gets a clear shot to nail Giroux?

The best way to counter a guy like Orr is to simply skate away from him and let him take idiotic penalties. Like when Carcillo laughed at him and got Orr put in the box for four minutes a few years ago-the Flyers converted that PP and got the win.

Just dress Shelley and be done with it.

We're supposed to be the Broad Street Bullies. Listen to some of the stuff on this board. Orr is scary??!??!??

You don't think intimidation, hitting, and attitude can win a championship. Buy a DVD of the last superbowl.
- Daman

In case this was missed.

Admitting you were wrong on Hockeybuzz is a bannable offence.
- Atomic Wedgie

But being wrong is ok. In fact, you are making a career out of it.

You know, Craig Berube talked about this once. He didn't say who it was, but against (I believe) the North Stars, one of their tough guys was running around at some of the Flyers. Berube didn't confront the tough guy, he went up to one of the better players on the team and told him, "If he doesn't stop, I'm coming after you." It stopped, and the tough guy actually talked sensibly about it with Berube. While he's not the same caliber of fighter, Rinaldo could do the same thing to Kessel. Just let him know, if you take liberties against our guys, I'm not going to make them pay, I'm going to make your whole team play by removing their best player from the lineup.
- jmatchett

Further to your point:

A few years ago, Janssen kills Kaberle with an elbow to the melon. Kaberle is out for weeks.

The next game, Wade Belak fights Janssen - give the fight to Belak, but it wasn't a murder or anything.

How exactly does that deter anyone from doing it again?

If my goon hits your star, ignore the goon. Hit the star. Only harder.

Hey Leaf fans,
Can you tell me about Kostka and Holzer?
I haven't had the chance to see them play.
- Marc D

They're both average two way d-men for a team's 3rd pairing

Holzer is more defensive, grittier and definitely the better of the two

Kostka was scoring at a PPG rate for the Marlies but his offence hasn't really translated into the NHL and he hasn't been that great (maybe due to Carlyle overplaying him early in the season)

Holzer isn't much of an offensive threat but somehow he has 2 goals in 5 games so far

But being wrong is ok. In fact, you are making a career out of it.
- Daman

You seem to be very angry today.

Everything OK?

You know, Craig Berube talked about this once. He didn't say who it was, but against (I believe) the North Stars, one of their tough guys was running around at some of the Flyers. Berube didn't confront the tough guy, he went up to one of the better players on the team and told him, "If he doesn't stop, I'm coming after you." It stopped, and the tough guy actually talked sensibly about it with Berube. While he's not the same caliber of fighter, Rinaldo could do the same thing to Kessel. Just let him know, if you take liberties against our guys, I'm not going to make them pay, I'm going to make your whole team play by removing their best player from the lineup.
- jmatchett

Well said and I spoke directly about this in an earlier post.

JMatchett - thanks for a good, intelligent post although many will despise you for it.

Admitting you were wrong on Hockeybuzz is a bannable offence.
- Atomic Wedgie

Thankfully, I'm unbannable

You know, Craig Berube talked about this once. He didn't say who it was, but against (I believe) the North Stars, one of their tough guys was running around at some of the Flyers. Berube didn't confront the tough guy, he went up to one of the better players on the team and told him, "If he doesn't stop, I'm coming after you." It stopped, and the tough guy actually talked sensibly about it with Berube. While he's not the same caliber of fighter, Rinaldo could do the same thing to Kessel. Just let him know, if you take liberties against our guys, I'm not going to make them pay, I'm going to make your whole team play by removing their best player from the lineup.
- jmatchett

That's exactly my point. All you need is a Rinaldo or somebody to mention to one of the Leafs skill guys that if any shenanigans go on, he's going to be shopping for dentures in the morning. The message will get to Orr.

Co-Sign.

Jody Shelley dressing or not dressing is going to have zero effect on Colton Orr's actions towards Giroux or the other Flyers skill guys. Shelley isn't going to stop anyone from delivering a hit or playing chippy with Giroux.

And if the choice is Shelley or Sesttito, flip a coin.
- Jsaquella

sestitov

sestitov
- isaiah520

I'm hoping that the better showing of late from Voracek and Schenn will offset the loss of our Russian sniper buddy.

I see a few issues with this-first, Shelley isn't going to be the one running or grtting chippy with the Leafs skill guys. If you want to play Shelley against the JvR-Kessel line, I'm pretty sure Randy Carlyle would have a 4 hour erection. If there's going to be a Flyer that agitates and gets under the skin of the Leafs skill players, it's going to be Rinaldo.

Second. Shelley's presence isn't going to deter Orr from doing anything. Orr isn't worried that he'll have to answer to Shelley. You think that Orr cares that he'll have to fight Shelley if he gets a clear shot to nail Giroux?

The best way to counter a guy like Orr is to simply skate away from him and let him take idiotic penalties. Like when Carcillo laughed at him and got Orr put in the box for four minutes a few years ago-the Flyers converted that PP and got the win.
- Jsaquella

a player like B. schenn has more of an ability to change the game with his physicality.

You know, Craig Berube talked about this once. He didn't say who it was, but against (I believe) the North Stars, one of their tough guys was running around at some of the Flyers. Berube didn't confront the tough guy, he went up to one of the better players on the team and told him, "If he doesn't stop, I'm coming after you." It stopped, and the tough guy actually talked sensibly about it with Berube. While he's not the same caliber of fighter, Rinaldo could do the same thing to Kessel. Just let him know, if you take liberties against our guys, I'm not going to make them pay, I'm going to make your whole team play by removing their best player from the lineup.
- jmatchett

It was the Rangers and the target was to be Bryan Leetch. Chris Therien has told this story a couple times during Flyers broadcasts.

Couldnt be any further from the truth. Reading a play correctly as it develops is how a defensman can catch a faster player with a big hit.
- Stinkfitz

I haven't seen him yet this year. i'm just stating how he played in Toronto.
If a guy was slow enough.. GOOD NIGHT IRENE!
But if the opp/ player had any speed, usually he'd blow by Schenn and have a clear path to the net, or a 2 on 1 setup. Whenever the leafs would play a slower team, we would rave about Schenn and how he was improving. Whenever he'd go face to face agaisnt a guy like Giroux, we'd be talking about how he struggled defensively.

The reports I have read out of Philly, suggest that hasn't really changed.

Reports were that the Flyers and Carle had a deal last season, but didn't have the tagging space to actually get it signed right away.

Then July 1st hit and they attempted to get Suter or Weber. Both failed, and Carle ended up in Tampa.

They tried to go for the home run and struck out. It sucks. But it happens.
- bradleyc4

I forgot about the tagging space issue...I'm sunk

Reports were that the Flyers and Carle had a deal last season, but didn't have the tagging space to actually get it signed right away.

Then July 1st hit and they attempted to get Suter or Weber. Both failed, and Carle ended up in Tampa.

They tried to go for the home run and struck out. It sucks. But it happens.
- bradleyc4

I don't know why everyone feels Suter would have been a homerun if he came here. Compare his career with Coburn, Mez and Carle and there is not much difference between them. This year he is struggling a bit.
Weber was for his scoring skills. He is also struggling but will regain form soon.

I see a few issues with this-first, Shelley isn't going to be the one running or grtting chippy with the Leafs skill guys. If you want to play Shelley against the JvR-Kessel line, I'm pretty sure Randy Carlyle would have a 4 hour erection. If there's going to be a Flyer that agitates and gets under the skin of the Leafs skill players, it's going to be Rinaldo.

Second. Shelley's presence isn't going to deter Orr from doing anything. Orr isn't worried that he'll have to answer to Shelley. You think that Orr cares that he'll have to fight Shelley if he gets a clear shot to nail Giroux?

The best way to counter a guy like Orr is to simply skate away from him and let him take idiotic penalties. Like when Carcillo laughed at him and got Orr put in the box for four minutes a few years ago-the Flyers converted that PP and got the win.
- Jsaquella

Thank you for sparing some brain cells in order to retain good examples like this.

I'm hoping that the better showing of late from Voracek and Schenn will offset the loss of our Russian sniper buddy.
- Jsaquella

a reasonable expectation