I don't know why everyone feels Suter would have been a homerun if he came here. Compare his career with Coburn, Mez and Carle and there is not much difference between them. This year he is struggling a bit.
Weber was for his scoring skills. He is also struggling but will regain form soon.
- strongsupporter

In a lot of ways, I'm glad they didn't get Suter. Very good player. But I don't feel he was worth that investment.

Who has been the better player since they've parted ways? Suter or Weber?

If you want to argue small sample size, take a look Weber's stats in games when Suter wasn't available. A stark contrast to games with Suter.

Suter allowed Weber to become an offensive force. He wasn't simply the guy giving him the puck.
- bradleyc4

Really neither one is playing that well. You could be right. We will see over time. Thanks for the reply.

In a lot of ways, I'm glad they didn't get Suter. Very good player. But I don't feel he was worth that investment.
- MJL

I agree. He was a essentially a better version of Carle. Both guys were too large an investment for my taste. Bump each down a million bucks in their cap hits and things look 10x better.

Leafs will get the last change, so if they want to play their skill guys against our 4th line; it's their prerogative. And you're clearly taking a statement of mine and taking it to an extreme if you somehow thought I said that we would play Shelley against their top line at every chance. There are going to be scenarios where the two lines will cross paths; just as there will be with Orr and G's line; it happens in the course of a hockey game.

You can say 'til you're blue in the face that Shelley won't deter Orr; it doesn't make it a fact. We're not in the players' heads or in the locker rooms, so we can only go off of what we witness on the ice. No one is saying that Orr is afraid of Shelley, and that is not what I was conveying. But Orr will have to take it into consideration. If I take a big shot on Giroux, I better believe that one of their players will target one of my star teammates. It's how hockey was played and it's how it is still played. Legal hit or not, players will always have to pay for their physical play. Whether the response is Shelley fighting Orr or Rinaldo/Schenn(x2) taking a run at Kessel is at the discretion of the Flyers.

And of course I have no qualms with the Flyers trying to be the bigger man and skating away from some of the foolish stuff after the whistle. That should always be their first response. But like I said, Orr can take a clean shot at Giroux, hurt him, and not get tagged with a penalty. In scenarios like that, it still deserves a response from the Flyers.
- steelydan

Shelley or any other player isn't going to stop an enforcer from taking liberties. He is in there for one reason in this situation. So other far more important players don'thave to stand up to someone like Orr and risk injury.

Suter would have been the perfect heir apparent to Timonen. Similar type of player, both with exceptional defensive awareness and hockey sense.
- bradleyc4

Suter isn't close to the defensive player that Timonen has been here, in my opinion.

Shelley or any other player isn't going to stop an enforcer from taking liberties. He is in there for one reason in this situation. So other far more important players don'thave to stand up to someone like Orr and risk injury.
- MJL

Rinaldo did a pretty good job stopping Crombeen from taking liberties the other night.

I'd be willing to say that less than 50% of fans are of that mindset, and I'm sure the percentage of players are much less. The "level-headed" analysts will say that, but it's easy to be level-headed when there is no vested interest.

The fact of the matter is, if Giroux is crushed into the boards via a legal hit and gets knocked out of the game, there is little-to-no-doubt in my mind that someone will retaliate. Legal or not, no team wants to be perceived as a pushover, and that is what will happen if hits go unpunished. Hockey is simply not as cut-and-dry as people want to make it out to be. These are human beings with emotion on the ice and they ultimately have a group-mentality of sticking up for each other, clean or not.

But in my defense, I'm not saying it automatically deserves a fight. It certainly does deserve some sort of response.
- steelydan

No team is going to skate away and not respond. It's simply a case of who do you want to give the job to, to respond. Key important players, or the expendable 4th line part time enforcer?

Shelley or any other player isn't going to stop an enforcer from taking liberties. He is in there for one reason in this situation. So other far more important players don'thave to stand up to someone like Orr and risk injury.
- MJL

this. unfortunately, it's not a preventative move (as we've all proved impossible anyway).

Rinaldo did a pretty good job stopping Crombeen from taking liberties the other night.
- PLindbergh31

Huge difference between Crombeen and Orr.

My family watched A&C, not the Stooges (as much).

Loved Shemp in the third Thin Man movie, though.

"They didn't say you had to be a father they just said you had to have a kid!"

- Flyskippy

Shemp did a lot of solo work in movies. He and Besser were in at least one A&C film together - 'Africa Screams'.

He certainly knew how to deliver a line, that's for sure.

Suter isn't close to the defensive player that Timonen has been here, in my opinion.
- MJL

Agree to disagree. I feel he's superior to Timonen.

Suter isn't close to the defensive player that Timonen has been here, in my opinion.
- MJL

yeah kimmo is great, what i still dont get is why home offered suter weber like money. it made him look desperate when he didnt have to be. imma big believer that if a player who has developed within an organization and proven hes deserving of a larger contract then it should be the duty of the GM to ensure that he stays apart of the team.

Shelley or any other player isn't going to stop an enforcer from taking liberties. He is in there for one reason in this situation. So other far more important players don'thave to stand up to someone like Orr and risk injury.
- MJL

Not sure how this deviates from my point. Shelley will stand up to Orr, ultimately stopping/limiting the amount of "liberties" he takes with the Flyers. If Orr takes a shot at a skill player and then Shelley fights him soon after, Shelley has done two things.

1.) He's established that there will likely be a price to pay if you take a run at our skill guys. Orr may very likely win the fight, but the that doesn't nullify his point.
2.) The refs are now aware that there is chippy hockey ahead of them, and players like Orr (and Shelley) will have tight leashes. This will ultimately cut down Orr's ability to be effective on the ice.

Rinaldo did a pretty good job stopping Crombeen from taking liberties the other night.
- PLindbergh31

yeah, well, i doubt there is anyone on the Flyers team since Donny B circa 2003 that could beat Orr hands down, let alone smash him to the ice

Yep. Once Larry and Moe went to the "Gentleman's haircuts" (hair slicked back) the Stooges had jumped the shark.
- PLindbergh31

Yeah, they milked it long after the cow was dead.

Agree to disagree. I feel he's superior to Timonen.
- bradleyc4

Now probably so. Both in their prime. Not even close defensively.

Huge difference between Crombeen and Orr.
- MJL

I think we're reading way to much into Colton Orr's effect on a game. Dude averages 5 minutes TOI a night. Yeah he's tough but is he really going to be that big of a problem?

Not sure how this deviates from my point. Shelley will stand up to Orr, ultimately stopping/limiting the amount of "liberties" he takes with the Flyers. If Orr takes a shot at a skill player and then Shelley fights him soon after, Shelley has done two things.

1.) He's established that there will likely be a price to pay if you take a run at our skill guys. Orr may very likely win the fight, but the that doesn't nullify his point.
2.) The refs are now aware that there is chippy hockey ahead of them, and players like Orr (and Shelley) will have tight leashes. This will ultimately cut down Orr's ability to be effective on the ice.
- steelydan

It wasn't meant to deviate from your point. It was meant to reinforce your point.

I think we're reading way to much into Colton Orr's effect on a game. Dude averages 5 minutes TOI a night. Yeah he's tough but is he really going to be that big of a problem?
- NickTheKid87

I agree with that. Good possibility it's all about nothing. But it's good to be prepared if it's needed.

Agree to disagree. I feel he's superior to Timonen.
- bradleyc4

hmmm...this is actually a pretty good argument. if you're just talking defensive zone responsibility, puck clearing, positioning, ect....i dunno.

Suter doesn't have the size limitations that Timmonen has to deal with tho

yeah, well, i doubt there is anyone on the Flyers team since Donny B circa 2003 that could beat Orr hands down, let alone smash him to the ice
- eshake

Of course. I liked Brashear. He played well for the Flyers. Could score goals once in a while too. Towards the end of his career he was just hanging on for a paycheck, but his Flyers years he was a very effective player.

Agree to disagree. I feel he's superior to Timonen.
- bradleyc4

i've prob watched suter and weber play a handful of times as compared to kimmo who i see play on a daily basis. i obvi. appreciate everything kimmo brings to the game. plus his character, i wanna see the flyers win the cup cuz there is no one more deserving than 44...it will be a shame if he has to retire without a ring

I think we're reading way to much into Colton Orr's effect on a game. Dude averages 5 minutes TOI a night. Yeah he's tough but is he really going to be that big of a problem?
- NickTheKid87

i think the argument is really a "where does the 'enforcer's' role in the game stand in this NHL" type thing at this point

I agree with that. Good possibility it's all about nothing. But it's good to be prepared if it's needed.
- MJL

It's just funny because it seems like we're making a bigger deal about Colton Orr than we do when we have to face Crosby and Malkin.

I'd be willing to say that less than 50% of fans are of that mindset, and I'm sure the percentage of players are much less. The "level-headed" analysts will say that, but it's easy to be level-headed when there is no vested interest.

The fact of the matter is, if Giroux is crushed into the boards via a legal hit and gets knocked out of the game, there is little-to-no-doubt in my mind that someone will retaliate. Legal or not, no team wants to be perceived as a pushover, and that is what will happen if hits go unpunished. Hockey is simply not as cut-and-dry as people want to make it out to be. These are human beings with emotion on the ice and they ultimately have a group-mentality of sticking up for each other, clean or not.

But in my defense, I'm not saying it automatically deserves a fight. It certainly does deserve some sort of response.
- steelydan

If that's the case, you don't have to do it on the spot. The best example I can think of is the Claude Lemieux - Kris Draper incident. Although it's a LITTLE different because it was a playoff game, no one went after Lemieux that game. However, next season, Lemieux and a number of Colorado players had to answer, ending with Lemieux being kneed in the face against the boards by McCarty.

Also, are you of the mind that someone should have gone after Scott Stevens in Game 7 after he hit Lindros? It was a hard, mean, but (at the time legal) hit to a player who put himself into a vulnerable position.